an answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.
however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?
god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.
dear lovelylil...
you said: "To me, anyone that constantly tries to tear down another's beliefs is EXACTLY like the WT organization and should be reflecting the mirror back onto themselves."
isn't that EXACTLY what Jesus did before He started to build up His church on the Truth?
love michelle
actually i thought about making a thread called, "to the rational and non-delusional of jwn" but realized it wouldn't get too many hits, so instead i've created a thread for all those conspiracy theorists, doomsday sayers, christ complexers and the just plain ole batshit nuts.. this thread is for you....
"There is nothing in which people more betray their character than in what they laugh at." Goethe
humans are to ants what god is to humans..... at least, that is how i see it.. ants can't know humans or entertain theories and ideas or myths about humanity.. if we step on an anthill they don't mourn and bury their dead and send prayers up to us.. we are just one more thing they have to deal with.. humans don't become an ant and live among them and die at their bidding only to rise and save a few for later reward.. humans don't help a select few ants write a wonderful and inspiring ant bible to enlighten and bond with us.. ants are extremely different from humans and the twain simply don't meet.
we barely tolerate their existence!.
but, we humans are convinced god is a guy in the sky.
matthew 11:27
xo
.
what's the point of jesus if adam & eve did not 'fall' and condemn us all to sin?.
dear PSacramento...
you said: "Sometimes we forget that even the apostles didn't always agree with each other or see eye-to-eye, such was the case with Paul, Peter and James, even John and James and the rest of the apostles, even Thomas.
We don't always have to agree on every little point about doctrine, we are all under Our Lord and how Our lord chooses to reveal himself to each of us is Up to Him.
Peace and love amongst all believers, in Our Lord Jesus Christ."...
while scripture mentions disagreement among the apostles I doubt the church would have come to a "unity of the faith" if they had simply agreed to disagree...likely they brought forth their good reasons until a concensus was achieved. I also doubt that the nature of Jesus Christ was ever considered a little point about doctrine. Jesus Christ is the foundation of the faith...what a shaky foundation if He can be both God and not God at the same time. how could the church make a legitimate defence of its faith to an unbeliever? why would martyrs concede to such a waffleing doctrine? in fact james 5:20 makes much of the difference between truth and error...the difference being the persons salvation or not. faith confronts the erring brother...this is true and enduring love. when we were talking on tuesday I had mentioned how unity in body of Christ goes hand in hand with unity of purpose. 1 john 2:19 speaks of those that had their own agenda apart from building up the body for a purpose (2 thess 1:10) *amen!!*...verse 21 agrees that no lie(error) is of the truth...there is only one truth then...Jesus is God the Son or Jesus is not God the Son.
Jesus agreed that He was the Son of God making Himself equal with God(john 5:17-18)...put another way..."Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." (1 john 2:23).
love michelle
faith hell-questioning pastor rob bell says new book has led him to profound brokenness .
bell's recently-released book.. nashville, tenn. (ap) evangelical megachurch pastor rob bell said he did not anticipate the firestorm he would stir with his book that questions the traditional christian belief that a select number of believers will spend eternity in heaven while everyone else is tormented in hell.. bell said tuesday that he not only didnt set out to be controversial, he had no idea his best seller, love wins, would bring condemnation from people like southern baptist seminary president albert mohler, who claims bell is leading people astray.. the last couple of weeks have been most painful in my life, the pastor from mars hill bible church in grand rapids, mich., told a crowd of about 1,600 at nashvilles belmont university on tuesday after an audience member asked him about the criticism he has faced.
it has taken me to a place of profound brokenness.. but he said that with gods help he has been able to learn and grow from the experience.. even before the book was published last month, religious leaders and their followers were branding it heresy, hailing it as a breakthrough or landing somewhere in the middle.
dear Terry...
“I kept meeting religious people who were incredibly dogmatic about heaven and hell when you die but didn’t seem to care about the fact that 800,000,000 people will go to bed hungry tonight.”...concern and provision for your fellow man isn't universalism...it's part of christianity. maybe the pastor is hearing from the "comfortable pew"...for some it's just easier to write people off than give treasure or labor towards their salvation.
I've always had a hard time understanding how believers would be "evacuated" while everyone else suffers. in reading the bible I get the sense from the OT in combination with revelation(plagues) that there is more evidence of the same type of action taken by God as there is in Leviticus 23:21-23. if you walk contray to God He removes His protection and allows the plague and the beast to come against you. in the OT the ones who didn't walk contrary to God weren't taken away from these things but likely were given divine protection from them.(some prophets are an example of this) according to jeremiah 25:32-38 trouble will go from nation to nation as well as amongst the "flock" and the sheperds who are contrary to God are not spared either. in revelation 7 it says that the trouble later described wont happen before His servants are sealed...(the only way sealing is described is by the Holy Spirit who also quickens believers.[divine protection] romans 8:11). the whole reason, I believe, that God told His people how/why He would take this action of removing His protection is that a) He want's people to "return/turn" to Him b) in His love for mankind He saw fit to warn us that there would be a great tribulation at the hands of those that don't return/turn to Him.
having said that I think it's possible that even some christians under-estimate the love of God AND His ability to bring about His desire...revelation 7:9-14...these "come out of" [divine protection] the tribulation where even the saints are killed.rev 13:7
love michelle
i for my part do not believe there is a satan the devil.
he does not exist.
there is a creator, but no oposite number, no satan.
greetings!
I have noticed that in the bible where satan is mentioned as being seen as himself it is when people are "in the spirit" otherwise he possesses or materializes within something or someone.
job (spirit realm)
spoken to by God and described as he really is (spirit)
wildeness with Jesus who was led there (in the spirit)
zechariah in a vision (in the spirit)
Jesus "sees" him falling from heaven (in the spirit)
A&E (physical)
peter (physical)
judus (physical)
A&S (physical)
with the body of moses (undetermined O.o)
so it seems if you are aware of the reality of satan you are able to discern whether he is there or not. if I remember correctly, throughout the bible he was only physically identified as the persona, satan, by Jesus in the NT and God in the OT.
love michelle
i swear only a fool would believe in such a ludicrous doctrine that all three are one.
ridiculous..
dear PSacramento...
you said post #7945: "If the writers of the OT and the followers of the OT had gotten it right, there would have been no need for Christ."
according to romans 1:18-19: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is evident among them; for God hath shewed it unto them. + That was the true Light which gives light to every man who comes into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. (john 1:9-10)
have you exchanged the truth of God for your lie? how does this serve you well?
love michelle
i swear only a fool would believe in such a ludicrous doctrine that all three are one.
ridiculous..
Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit
Have [a] sent Me.”
Footnotes:
love michelle
it all comes down to evidence (but funny how we tend not to accept the evidence that indicates that what be actually believe to be true might be wrong).. this is a statement made by nick in previous thread of his.. >>>>>>>>>>.
if the ot 'god' reappeared today, would that be evidence of 'god'?.
jay, .
dear PSacramento...
you said?: "God reveals himself to us, not only in the Bible and the many religions of the world, and not only via his Word ( Christ) but via the universe.
To only focus on ONE is to get only a partial picture."...
in the bible it says that the invisable attributes of God can be seen in the creation...these would be the orderliness of the creation, as in the way each day is measured and the sun is just this close to the earth, the moon illuminates the night, the beneficial "seasons" etc..."being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead" and the reason for gentile guilt was because they had made God to be like perishable man (rom 1:20-23)...I don't think scripture says that God has revealed Himself to mankind through differing and opposing religions. God is a God of order not a God of chaos. in fact paul went about telling those on mars hill that God was willing to overlook the previous time of ignorance but now commands all men everywhere to repent because He has appointed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.(acts 17:30-31)
I wonder how it makes sense to you and maybe you could explain how it could be that God would "reveal" through the Hebrew prophets in such a way as to intimate that there is a coming Messiah then Jesus enters into the world as the image of the invisible God...the Way the Truth and the Life and then some 600 years later mohammed comes along with an immature grasp of Jesus and the gospel message...vetos clear teaching in the gospel (ie. original sin, salvation, Son of God, regeneration, resurrection) yet you believe that somehow a God of order is "responsible" for giving him this information? Jesus said, "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent". There really doesn't seem to be any significant agreement between the gospel revelation of Truth, who is Jesus Christ, and what mohammed taught about Jesus Christ...if you are to suggest that the God of the Hebrews, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob who was conceptualized as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is the same God that gave mohammed his "revelation"...wouldn't that be like NOT revelation but more like receeding back into darkness since by the time mohammed came along christianity HAD spread beyond the borders of israel, he himself had heard of Jesus Christ.
I think it far more likely that the one who gave mohammed his information to "recite" is one who didn't understand the nature of God or His redemption "plan" through Jesus Christ...being either uninformed or a reviler of Jesus Christ...or that mohammed completely misunderstood what his informer was saying (which would be short-sighted on the part of God as mohammed was the only one to bear "his" message) ...either way because Jesus said, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Me" the people who practice islam would eventually need to repudate what mohammed taught in order to come to the Father...why would the God of truth, who cannot lie, give mohammed the wrong directions to get to Himself? *note gabriel in the bible told mary that she would bear the Son of the Most High yet the gabriel who supposedly spoke with mohammed caused him to say that God has no need of a Son.
please, seriously consider this: you are actually elevating your thoughts over the words of Jesus Christ.
love michelle
http://www.libsandcons.com/1/post/2011/03/islamophobia-is-unpatriotic.html.
they are abused with calls of go home, and terrorist, little children are subjected to it as well.
a villa park councilwoman named deborah pauly echoes the rhetoric of pamela geller and even calls for the murder of participants (who she labels terrorists) at the charity event.
dear DanaBug...
I did not see the video and it is no longer available in that post.
I would NOT agree that a charity event for women and children is the forum to resist the islamic religion. I think that those who do use such events as a forum are misguided...just as I think that the protestors from westboro church at the funerals of servicemen/women are misguided.
open and honest debate ought to bring out correct information not intimidation.
I respect that the muslim clerics know how to interpret their koran and its sharia law. I respect that they mean and believe what they say at the preface of their koran with every fiber of their being. If a muslim person wants to live under the precepts of the koran and its sharia law, then fine, I can respect their decision. BUT I believe that it is not in the best interests of myself and my family to live under those same precepts and so therefore when the muslim population starts to make noises in the direction of introducing their sharia law in the host country I see a distinct lack of respect for the system we choose to live under.
sharia law is not the same as the ten commandments.
"Islamic law is probably best known for deterrent punishment which is the basis of the Islamic criminal system, and the discrimination against women.
Another important feature of Muslim law is the fact that there is no clear separation of church and state. Under Islamic law, the religion of Islam and the government are one. Islamic law is controlled, ruled and regulated by the Islamic religion; a theocracy.
Written in the form of a religious book akin to the form of the Christian Bible, the Koran nonetheless and relentlessly sets out a moral code - Islamic law - for adherents of the Islamic faith, of which it forms the pinnacle.
Because of this and also the strict, dramatic and unforgiving nature of the text, the law as it has formed in Islamic countries has followed the edicts of the Koran, often literally and often with cruel result. This is contrasted with the governments of Christian nations who have abandoned similar dramatic or violent parables of law as set out in the Bible, instead extracting and developing a relatively un-invasive rule of law."
once sharia law is imposed on a society...any criticism of the government is taken as blasphemy, for which Sharia prescribes prison or death."
cf. http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/S/ShariaLaw.aspx http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/T/Theocracy.aspx
the islamic religion believes that their sharia law is THE superior form of governance and I don't think it is wise to confuse the true face of islam with the face of your moderate muslim american friends. one is a thing the other is a person. though I didn't see the video I can "imagine" that the protestors did confuse the two as the quote has them telling the muslim people to "go home" and calling them "terrorists".
islam seems to have gobbled up every culture in its path, do we want to wait until we are intimidated before we "push back" against it? or should we stand up for our sons before the situation is critical?...there comes a time, doesn't there, that one has to BE patriotic or risk losing forever that which we love.
love michelle
