AlmostAtheist

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Posts by AlmostAtheist

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  62

  Should I teach my kids about Santa Claus? (Lie vs. Harmless Fantasy)

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i got on a discussion about something i never would've guessed we'd need to.

  she wants to teach our new baby about santa claus, easter bunny, & tooth fairy, but i don't.

  of course, as witnesses we never would have taught that, and i have to acknowledge that i may only be reasoning using that old set of values.. i don't want to look into my kid's eyes and tell her something that i know for a fact isn't true.

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  AlmostAtheist

  If you hadn't been a witness, this would most likely be a non-issue for you.

  Almost surely, I agree.

  <thumps head>Out! Out, vile cult thinking! I command you in the name of Santa!

  Thanks, all. You've been extremely helpful!

  Dave
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  62

  Should I teach my kids about Santa Claus? (Lie vs. Harmless Fantasy)

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i got on a discussion about something i never would've guessed we'd need to.

  she wants to teach our new baby about santa claus, easter bunny, & tooth fairy, but i don't.

  of course, as witnesses we never would have taught that, and i have to acknowledge that i may only be reasoning using that old set of values.. i don't want to look into my kid's eyes and tell her something that i know for a fact isn't true.

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  AlmostAtheist

  It's impossible to *prove* that Santa doesn't have some well-concealed, toy manufacturing outpost somewhere above the arctic circle, that's true. But it's hardly the point.

  The point is that *I* don't believe in him, but I'm considering talking about him as if *I* do. That's the lie part of it. Whether he actually exists or not really isn't the point.

  And the fact that it is "steeped in paganism" isn't important to me, either. It's just the outright deception that bugs me.

  In the thread pointed to from a few years ago, the point is made that we play with our kids all the time. "Let's be cowboys" or "Look! An alien!", but the difference is that you start and end that fantasy the same day, usually within minutes. And you aren't trying to convince your children that the fantasy is true. It's make-believe, but you're both make-believe'ing. In the santa/easter bunny/tooth fairy scenario, one of you is make-believing and the other thinks it's true.

  A good point is made, though, that it's a long-term game. Like a very lengthy game of pretend, that terminates when the kids realize of their own accord that you were only pretending.

  Good points on both sides. If Gina didn't want to do it, I'm sure I wouldn't give it a second thought. But because it's so important to her, and I can't see the harm, I'll probably go along with it. The supposed harm doesn't seem to actually come about. It didn't hurt me, it didn't hurt most of you.

  Thanks for all your help and reasoning. And experience.

  Dave
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  62

  Should I teach my kids about Santa Claus? (Lie vs. Harmless Fantasy)

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i got on a discussion about something i never would've guessed we'd need to.

  she wants to teach our new baby about santa claus, easter bunny, & tooth fairy, but i don't.

  of course, as witnesses we never would have taught that, and i have to acknowledge that i may only be reasoning using that old set of values.. i don't want to look into my kid's eyes and tell her something that i know for a fact isn't true.

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  AlmostAtheist

  My wife and I got on a discussion about something I never would've guessed we'd need to. She wants to teach our new baby about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, & Tooth Fairy, but I don't. Of course, as Witnesses we never would have taught that, and I have to acknowledge that I may only be reasoning using that old set of values.

  I don't want to look into my kid's eyes and tell her something that I know for a fact isn't true. It's not like a conversation about UFO's or angels or evolution, where I can have a view, but allow for the idea that some other view might be true. Santa simply doesn't exist in the sense that he is taught to children. Gina points out that my Dad taught me about Santa and all that, and finding out it was all a story didn't affect me. I didn't hold it against them, or question other things they taught me. That's true.

  Gina feels that it's cheating the kids to not let them have this make-believe fun. She thinks there is a joy to be had in putting a tooth under your pillow and having it magically become money in the morning. I don't disagree that it would be fun for them, but I don't think that's the point.

  I can't seem to get my head around this one. I don't want to deny something genuinely fun to my child (it's too late for my 6 year old!), but I also have this deep-seated aversion to telling her something that isn't true.

  How have you guys handled this? Anything you can toss my way?

  Thanks!

  Dave
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  27

  something in crisis of conscience i didnt know about... that shocked me

  by candidlynuts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on page 164- 166 , in the chapter titled " double standards" subheading " two sorts of weights for measuring".

  the administration of the headquarters of jehovah's witnesses many decades ago decided that, because of the exsisting law, jehovah's witnesses in mexico would present themsevles , not as a religious organization, but as a "cultural" orginazation.

  the local corporation there formed " la torre del vigia,was so registered with the government of mexico(footnote).

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  AlmostAtheist

  It shocked me, too. Outrageous, unthinkable, that such a deadly double-standard existed.
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  24

  144,000 taking their lead from elders?????

  by Dansk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the 144,000 are supposedly to give the flock their spiritual food at the proper time.

  how is it the elders can laud it over a member of the (supposedly) anointed when it is members of the anointed who are supposed to distribute the spiritual food?

  why can they not distribute the spiritual food at the proper time?

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  AlmostAtheist

  from "Jehovah's Witnesses" at about.com: (http://experts.about.com/q/1617/3052543.htm)

  Well, for the Watchtower doctrine to be true, that would mean that, from the first century, up until the year 1935, the number of Christians throughout history could not exceed 144,000. This is an absurdity, given a number of Biblical facts....Though the Bible never tells us exactly how many Christians existed in the first century, we do have a glimpse.
  
  We find by reading Acts chapter 2, that 3,000 members were added on the Day of Pentecost. Then, in following chapters, we find 5,000 more converts just a week later, making over 8,000. Then, we are told at least 4 times after this in Acts, that the church continued to multiply and increase rapidly. Yet, the JWs expect us to believe that, from the first century to the year 1935, only 144,000 Christians had ever existed? I find that absurd. Let's do the math....
  
  The only concrete numbers that Acts give us are the 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost, and 5,000 more a week later, making 8,120 (there were 120 in the upper room). That would mean that, after that first week, for the next 1900 years, the church averaged gaining only about 72 converts a year! Yet, this is the exact opposite of what we read in Acts, where we are told at least 4 more times that the church continued to grow! (Acts 2:41, 4:4, 5:14, 6:7, 9:31, and 11:24).

  Google added the highlighting, based on my search terms.

  So 8,000 were added to the 120 in the first month. Looks like a pretty pitiful snowball if it can't accumulate another 136,000 in the next few decades. (Recall that the "apostasy" would have rendered 1900 years of nominal christians inelligible for anointing, save for folks like Charles 'It's all in the Pyramids' Russell...)
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  24

  144,000 taking their lead from elders?????

  by Dansk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the 144,000 are supposedly to give the flock their spiritual food at the proper time.

  how is it the elders can laud it over a member of the (supposedly) anointed when it is members of the anointed who are supposed to distribute the spiritual food?

  why can they not distribute the spiritual food at the proper time?

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  AlmostAtheist

  Thanks Blondie. Man, that's weak stuff. They must know there's no good answer to it. And it still doesn't address the problem of so many people converting to Christianity in the book of Acts alone.

  I appreciate your ability to so aptly pluck out the articles that apply.

  Dave
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  24

  144,000 taking their lead from elders?????

  by Dansk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the 144,000 are supposedly to give the flock their spiritual food at the proper time.

  how is it the elders can laud it over a member of the (supposedly) anointed when it is members of the anointed who are supposed to distribute the spiritual food?

  why can they not distribute the spiritual food at the proper time?

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  AlmostAtheist

  Blueblades wrote:

  The book of Acts mentions at least 100,000 people saved, and this was only the beginning of the growth of Christianity

  Do you have references to show that 100,000? I dug around last night and could only account for a few thousand, though there were several that I couldn't attach numbers to. This is another one that my mother-in-law would have a hard time explaining away.

  Thanks!

  Dave
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  16

  Who else hasn't got a pension plan?!!!!!!!

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well here we are starting to think about retiring in another twenty years and what do we find?

  we find that we've missed the best years of our lives for saving in a pension plan simply because we knew that we wouldn't need one because armageddon was coming.

  we were told by quite a few elders in our congregation that simply having a pension plan showed lack of faith that the kingdom was coming very soon and we should actively get rid of the company pension plans that we had.

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  AlmostAtheist

  I have this sock drawer that I've been dropping change into...

  Gina and I just started 401k contributions. We figure we'll bump it up a little every year so we don't drown in it, but we still have time to be reasonably comfortable. I'm 35, but I wish I'd been doing it all along. Of course, I would've lost it all in the 90's anyway, right? :-)

  Dave
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  20

  ??'s for Computer Programmers

  by DanTheMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well at 34 years of age i'm still wondering what i'm going to do with my life, career-wise.. i have done well in college courses i've taken in math, computer programming, and logic.

  also i have a fair amount of experience working as an end-user of various database programs used by my previous and current employers, and i have found that i have a good intuitive knack for understanding the underlying logic that makes them do what they do.

  so, i think that i have the mental goods necessary to be a good computer programmer, in fact i feel that i could be a pretty damn good one.. but, with all the out-sourcing, i'm wondering if american computer programmers are a dying breed that will eventually be completely supplanted by indian, chinese, and russian programmers.. so to those of you americans who currently work in the field, do you think that it is foolish to pursue a degree in computer science, given current trends?

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  AlmostAtheist

  My advice would be to talk to a career counselor. They aren't going to care so much what you take, as long as it's something their college teaches, so they're likely to give you less-biased advice. I'm coming at it from the standpoint of pretty much being locked into programming as my career, so my view of outsourcing is surely biased against it. I have to believe my job will never disappear, so the following is my "reasoning" (rationalizing?) on it. Time will tell.

  Personally, I don't think outsourcing is going to last just because the cost savings aren't real. You spend half or less on the development effort in terms of $/hr for a developer, but you lose it in the mangerial layer necessary to keep it on track. I've seen teams working on two different floors of the same buildnig that couldn't keep their design straight between them. Long term, there's no way you can expect a team in another country speaking a different language with a different culture to create the stuff you need.

  But that wasn't your question.

  I've been a professional programmer for 13 years, I've never wanted for work. On the other hand, my company is experiencing "rate pressure" from our clients, saying, 'Why should we pay $100/hr for your people when we can pay $30/hr for Indian developers with the same or better education?'" My company sells itself on its experience, we know the IT challenges in insurance/financial/pharmaceutical and we sell that more than our ability to code in ASP.NET. It works for us, but we still have had to lower our rates to remain in the game. I've seen offshore ventures fail miserably, though, as described above, so I think experience will win out in the end.

  Outsourcing scares me. No doubt about it. But I wouldn't want to get up Monday morning and plan on doing anything else. I think the best protection you have against it is to become experienced with some business sector and become familiar with solving their problems. When you sit down at a meeting with a client and can intelligently discuss their business, outside of the technology, when you can help them actually frame their problems in a way that can be discussed and addressed with technology, that's when I think you have a leg up on outsourcing. It seems that about 30% of any project is the actual coding, and only maybe 70% of that could potentially be outsourced. So there's a major chunk of the project definition (requirements gathering, validation, looking for holes, etc) that has to occur in-house before coding even begins, then a fair amount of coding that has to occur in-house since that's where the tweaking has to happen.

  Cross your fingers...
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  28

  Giving account to God

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if one day, you had to give account to god for your spiritual inactivity, what would you say?

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  AlmostAtheist

  I'd be one scared puppy.

  I hope I could at least stammer out a request for an explanation about how he/she/it/they could allow all the terrible things to happen to innocent people. (reference the baby whose mother cut off its arms, leading to its death)

  Assuming the explanation was a good one, I hope I could further ask why such an obvious and important question hasn't been properly addressed anywhere. No answer anyone's shown me has been adequate to explain why anyone with the power to keep terrible things from happening should refuse to do so. ("That's just life, Man," says my industrial-strength Christian neighbor.)

  In reality, I'd probably just pass out from shock and wake up in Hell. Maybe open a souvenir shop...