wiegel

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Posts by wiegel

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  30

  Will the Society come up with new prophecy to cover the lack of growth now?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was following mary's thread on the wt study of the annual report - what a hoot!.

  in follow-up; for years we have heard that the org's growth was 'proof' of the 'truth'.

  do you think the org will come up with some obsure scriptural/prophetic understanding to explain the reduced zeal for the 'kingdom' now?

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  wiegel

  I guess it depends on where you are standing. I have seen the "love of the greater number" cool off, and I have also seen the light "getting brighter". Watching the number of "posters" on this site growing so quickly, I can only imagine how many there are just "lurking". I know it took me 4 years before I started to post, but I was a visitor regularly.

  Of course, they will come up with an explanation of some prophecy or another. The question is, will they blame the publishers for the decline, or will they blame the apostates? And if it turns out to be "New Light", then no one can blame them because they are just doing as they are shown by Jehovah (they are so concerned about his reputation and yet they make him out to be so impotent and incapable of communicating with his "servants" or "prophets" or whatever - shameful). All that BS flows right down stream, and those who are tired of being burdened down with illogical and unloving rhetoric and seeing it for what it is.

  Maybe they have a huge 8 ball - the kind with the answers that float to the top. Must have something like that - intelligent adults could not compose this stuff on purpose, could they?
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  22

  Losing faith in the organization

  by parakete in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been a jw for more than 20 years, but during these past few years i have come to realize that some of the elders and regular publishers are very hypocritical and insensitive.

  they have done things that really disgust me.

  tare so arrogant that they cannot take any criticism form you.

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  wiegel

  Welcome Parakete! Hang around, you will find a lot of people here who understand.

  Trudy
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  56

  YESTERDAY'S WT STUDY

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh lordy, at yesterday's botchtower study, paragraph 17 (i think) asked what we personally found "encouraging" about the 2004 stats that are listed by country in the wt.

  anyway, someone finally put up their hand and remarked about how wonderful it was to see that ethiopia had a 5% increase......ya, i guess if you're starving to death, who wouldn't want to hear that paradise is right around the corner.

  one bro put up his hand and actually mentioned the fact that there was 0% increase in virtually all the industrialized nations, but that we "shouldn't let that discourage us".

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  wiegel

  Actually, someone did make the comment that perhaps the reason only the third world countries are experiencing growth is because "they are simple people" and they "don't question things as much as those that live where knowledge is abundant"

  One would think that this comment shows that this individual KNOWS it's a lot of BS but is very loyal anyway. Whose faith is stronger? The 3rd worldling who believes it all because he has no access to real information, or the guy at the hall who admits that abundant knowledge leads to attrition and yet stays and goes through the motions anyway? Downright scary.

  Trudy
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  21

  The GB: evil manipulators or misguided fools

  by New Worldly Translation in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been pondering this question for a while now and i haven't come to a conclusion yet.

  on the one hand there is evidence of psychological manipulation in their publications.

  they discourage questioning of their authority or even their fallability and try to whitewash past mistakes.

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  wiegel

  Good question - I have that one still on the shelf myself. If the posters on this site are any indication of the mindset of many witnesses, it seems that most are misguided. However, just like in poitics, once one reaches the level of authority and power that comes with a high position, most of what was admirable about that person suffers. All I do know is that whatever they do or say, it is not the work of one person. So, they are either all manipulators, or a few manipulators and a bunch of wusses. Ray is my hero because he stood up to them, as have so many here. Any way you look at it, it is inexcusable how they excuse themselves from responsibility for the "collateral damage" occurring in the ranks. Ivory towers indeed.
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  144

  Tough day -- my mom died today

  by cruzanheart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  poor thing, she's had alzheimer's for about 10 years and the last year she's been on hospice care because she's been so close to death.

  the past few months she's been slowly filling up with water -- they gave her lasix (not sure of the spelling) to relieve the edema and it worked, sort of.

  last weekend she actually looked a little better.

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  wiegel

  {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{nina}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

  I'm so sorry to hear about your mother...may you find comfort in the company of friends and family. wiegel
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  21

  Is there a name for this kind of JW tactic?

  by ithinkisee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is there an actual psychological term or whatever for this kind of jw tactic?.

  the tactic is where they head the opposing arguments off at the pass, like when a new person studies and they get to the point where they want to make a stand for "the truth".

  the person studying with them will tell them to "expect opposition from your family, this is satan trying to get at you because now you have found the truth and he's mad.".

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  wiegel

  Extensive personal manipulation, initiated from the leaders is designed to provoke certain patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that they appear to have arisen spontaneously from within the member or the group environment. The group's mystique justifies manipulation even when they supercede all considerations of decency or of immediate human welfare.

  OMG - " in such a way that they appear to have arisen spontaneously from within the member or the group environment." I could never find such eloquent words to describe this process. You know, the one which turned on the great crowd and blamed the r&f for looking to 1975. And how, by their "secret" laison with the UN, and subsequent expulsion, a situation was created that could (and still may) cause the UN to "turn on the WTS".....thus fulfilling another home-grown prophecy.

  Mystical Manipulation - funny, you have no power or authority as a dub, but then you are suddenly to blame for influencing the entire flock causing them to believe something that isn't true. Very very tricky.

  The truth about the lie will set you free..............wiegel
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  52

  I am new and scared

  by franki in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am terrified to be writing this because i am officially being bad.

  i am talking with other "sinners".

  i do not want to be a witness.

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  wiegel

  Welcome, Franki!

  I was scared too. I read the posts on this forum for 4 years before posting - I was afraid someone would capture my IP address and nail me. My advice - keep reading - anything, everything you can, and the scales WILL fall from your eyes. That clarity will also give you courage - congratulations on finding this place, I don't know what I would have done without this forum.
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  4

  WT 3-1-05 - Bible sets precedent for receiving governmental aid?

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  page 27 - under "jehovah's word is alive," it comments on chapter 2, verse 2: "ruth wanted to take advantage of the provision of gleaning made for the benefit of the foreigners and the afflicted.

  she was humble at heart.

  a needy christian should not be too proud to accept the loving assistance of fellow believers or any governmental aid he or she may qualify for.".

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  wiegel

  A needy Christian should not be too proud to accept the loving assistance of fellow believers or any governmental aid he or she may qualify for.

  Since they believe that they are the only true Christians, this could read: "A needy witness should not be too proud....."

  You gotta love it - in the US I would venture to say that "most" dubs are needy because they have not been taught to prepare for their futures, but rather have spent their lives preaching about the evils of the world and its governments.

  Hmmmmmm.....and now their fellow believers who are able to help them (probably because they got an education or had full time jobs or did something else that at the time kept them low on the spiritual totem pole) and the "evil" government can be used to bail them out.

  Do I smell a rat? dead men's bones?
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  6

  Welcome Wagon For wiegel

  by Valis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  welcome to the forum wiegel!

  love that show btw..

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  wiegel

  Wow! Hi everyone, what a nice surprise. Thanks for the warm welcome, I'm gonna be around for a while and hope to post more often as well. Cool!

  wiegel
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  37

  Watchtower Aug. 15, 1968 says to ignore Jesus about tthe time of the end..

  by AloneinOh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  talking about 1975 and the push by the society got me to looking at some older quotes.

  this one here really bugged me and still pisses me off when i read it.

  in this instance they are telling you to forget about jesus and listen to the society.

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  wiegel

  I swallowed - hook, line, and sinker - and remember it well. Started having a bible study in 72, quit college in 3rd year, quit music lessons, gave away oil paints, upset family with non-celebrations, and started doing the "limbo" for the next 25 years. The best consolation for me was finding this board 5 years ago and learning that I am not alone. I love life and am glad I got out in time to really enjoy what I have left while my family is still alive. Have they EVER said they are sorry about ANYthing? EVER????????????????? Such arrogance is clearly un-Christian, if not immoral.