Posts by biblexaminer

41

Talking with a young elder

by biblexaminer in

i had a discussion with an elder recently.

it was interesting in a macabre sense.

we were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently.

biblexaminer

re; the posters who have nothing good to say.

41

Talking with a young elder

by biblexaminer in

i had a discussion with an elder recently.

it was interesting in a macabre sense.

we were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently.

Good observation. You are an aspiring bible student. You will go far. Thank you for your question.

In answer, I say first, utilize the references in the NWT, or other bibles. You will find that Paul, in writing to the Galatians (Gal 2) gave a great run down of what happened in Antioch and afterwards in Jerusalem.

Paul allowed the readers to see, not just what happened in further detail, but how he felt about it all.Paul pointed fingers.

Gal 2:12 "For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he (Peter) used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they (certain men from James) came, he (Peter) began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party (certain men from James) of the circumcision."

The "party of the circumcision" was sent there by James, acting chief of the older men in Jerusalem who were starting up their governing body machine.

Acts 15 in the NWT seems to imply that Paul's going to Jerusalem was something worked out by these "certain men". Here, to the Galatians, Paul makes clear what was really the case. Gal. 2:2 "And it was because of a revelation (by Jesus) that I went up; .... but I did so in private to those who were of reputation (those older men who were attempting to centralize authority in a governing body) ... in "private" for fear that he might be wasting his time. Paul was hoping to turn them to Christ instead of blowing them out the door.

Read Acts 15 side by side with Galatians 2. Meditate on what you read.

Paul's unwillingness to meet with these "older men" of the newfangled governing older men on later occasions is understood. Paul had disdain for these men who were trying to gain disciples unto themselves, really, in competition with the Holy Spirit ...who was gaining disciples for Christ.

All quotes from the NAS Bible

41

Talking with a young elder

by biblexaminer in

i had a discussion with an elder recently.

it was interesting in a macabre sense.

we were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently.

re; Oubliette: The comment about 'figuring things out on your own' was not a quip directed at you. It was a general statement giving credit to the reader for the collective ability to discern the relativity of said point with respect of the foregone conclusions reached with the line of reasoning introduced.

If I had intended to direct it at you personally, I would have quoted your text and pointed the finger plainly. Do you suffer from low self esteem? I would not ask such a question, but you used expletives.

41

Talking with a young elder

by biblexaminer in

i had a discussion with an elder recently.

it was interesting in a macabre sense.

we were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently.

The fact that James was responsible for sending the APOSTATES to Antioch, and he was, as declared by the Watchtower, the "foreman" for the supposed 'governing body' at the time, means that the governing body of the first century, on whom the present-day Governing Body base their existence, was responsible for the trouble in Antioch.

The governing body was in the wrong.

And you won't hear about this bible based event at the kingdom hall.

Figure out why on your own.

41

Talking with a young elder

by biblexaminer in

i had a discussion with an elder recently.

it was interesting in a macabre sense.

we were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently.

biblexaminer

I had a discussion with an elder recently. It was interesting in a macabre sense.

We were outside the kingdom hall on a nice sunny day recently. He told me that neither he nor his wife had the desire to pioneer. He works full-time so he has an excuse anyway, his wife doesn't need to work (really) but does. So, even though they are 'good dubs' so-to-speak, they practice their religion 'their own way'. But one has to remember that they are still borg, thru & thru. I bet there's a thousand like them.

In any case, the conversation took some turns and I ended up saying that there were things that one never hears from 'inside there' (referring to the kingdom hall). For example, I gave the first century exploits of Paul within the congregation. There he was in Antioch, and there were men who were shoving circumcision down the throats of the Gentile converts.

I then asked him "Who were these men?... Where did they come from?" (blank stare) Interesting how little elders know about Christianity.

I began again, "Paul told us exactly who they were and where they came from" (still no response) "It's right there in the Bible" I said... (nothing)

I said "Paul explained that these men were sent down there by JAMES, from Jerusalem... and it's no wonder then that Jesus sent Paul to Jerusalem to straighten them out... which is why Paul expressed concern saying he didn't want o be 'striking the air' or in other words wasting his time." (quiet elder with eyes wide)

Then I went on to say that "the Watchtower a few years ago said that James was, at the time, the foremen of the governing body... so now we see why Acts records that there was such a big argument when Paul began to talk with them"

One stunned elder. He had nothing to say. Obviously it was all new to him.

I finished by again mentioning that "it's right there in the Bible, but you won't hear it in there".

I saw this elder again recently. Seems he has said nothing to anyone about that conversation. Seems we are 'still good'. No semi-shun.

I hope it eats his insides. Maybe, just maybe, Jesus will get one more.

28

for those who went to the 9/11 WT on apostate post here

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

just would like to have a place for those who went today to post their experience and the reception of the 7/15 study article on apostates..

biblexaminer

I went for the brunt of the Machiavellian bullfest. I don't know how I stayed that long.

But it was interesting. I heard one bro. go on about how he 'heard about a brother' who was a big "apostate". His name was 'Penton and he started his own religion, the Pentonites'.

Yep. He said that.

Then there was another bro. who was more interesting still. He said he saw some really bad apostate stuff. It was a sticker on a phone booth (he cleaned them) that had a few quotes from the Watchtower on it. It was really bad he said. Because it had some Watchtower quotes.

Imagine. Bad Watchtower quotes. (Gotta love them Watchtower quotes)

But then he tried to validate himself by adding that, ..'well, that wasn't so bad, but it was really bad because it had the Watchtower logo on it and that's illegal'. Sure. What made the sticker so contemptible was that it had some real, honest Watchtower quotes on it AND it bore the Watchtower official LOGO.

This bro. had a nervous breakdown back then, literally, (hospital and all) because phone booths all over town had these stickers (I heard). He was going out of his mind scraping them off. He could barely keep up. So easy to put on, so hard to remove. Aparently.

Then, they started to appear on the bus stops. I heard that the phone at the hall began ringing because they were appearing on businesses all over town and people were getting pissed at the dubs. That was another bro. cleaning those bus stops. I haven't heard his lament. Yet.

Anyway, phone booth boy just got his mind back recently. Enough so that he could rant at the tower today about his stickers, and his comments clearly betrayed his deep seated anger.

He lost his position cleaning the booths for Bell Telephone when he went mad temporarily. He lives very lean these days. Tough when you live on charity.

It's a shame really, that a simple few Watchtower quotes, out of the Kingdom Hall context, can make a dub go nutty. He's obviously read those Watchtower words before, but not on a phone booth where the public can see it too. And the public seeing it, well that just brings up the shame like a mixture of over spicy mexican food and bad lunchmeat.

There it is, right there where everone can see your nakedness. Shame!

I saw that sticker too, on the bus stops. Damned shameful I'd say. It said "only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved" and "now is a time for war"....

Shameful, just shameful.

42

Today I had been DA

by Ginosko in

first of all, sorry for my bad english i'm from peru south america.

there's a lot to tell but i'm going in this time to be brief, because i'm very busy.. i had been an elder for almost 8 years and a jh for more than 22 years.. i'm a searcher of the truth from the 10 years old.

i grow as a catholic and got baptized as a jh at the age of 21.. in october of 2001 a jw friend ask me about the un&wt and bulgarian affair.

biblexaminer

Hang in there brother. The WTS are the sinners here. You searched for truth and found it. Bravo!

The WTS does not want the truth to get out. That's the bottom line. So, they DF & DA those who know the truth, so as to keep the rest of the JW troop ignorant and in the dark.

Keep searching brother.

Email me at [email protected]. I will give you a treat. Some reading material that you will get nowhere else, as a reward for your hard work in coming to the light.

50

Is Ray Franz Great or What?

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

this evening i had a nice conversation with ray and we discussed our previous conversation.

while our previous conversation was remembered differently in certain areas we agreed that we should be peaceful with one another, i apologized for any misunderstanding and decided as a result to remove any negative comments made about him.

i do believe our discussion was productive and will help us both to be more supportive of one another in the future.

biblexaminer

Well, I know this. I have written to Ray Franz, and received several very gracious replies, as have many other persons. I have found him to be open minded and kind. His books are top notch, and in telephone conversations I have found him to be nothing less than a gentleman.

Ray's books are probably responsible for educating more of us that can be counted, and this website and all that has taken place so far can be partially atributed to Ray. I say that because many, many of us would never have come to posess the knowledge that we have without him.

Hence we would never be at the point that we are, taking the action that we presently take in defense of the truth (the real truth). His works built many of us to this point. I say bravo!

Bill, I will not say anything bad about you. I will say this though, you are running on adrenalin. You need a vacation. Remember focus.(to quote someone you know)

With that I say back to work everyone.

31

Class Action Lawsuit based on misinformation*

by biblexaminer in

i have long considered a lawsuit against the watchtower organization.

i realize that i am not the only one.

there are now presently many who are seriously considering it, and some who are actively pursuing it.

biblexaminer

Mr Smith goes to the door of Mrs Elderly.

Mr Elderly is dead and gone, so Mrs Elderly is left on her own.

Mr Smith tells Mrs elderly that he is from the gas company. He say she should give him 100 bucks.

Mrs Elderly complains.

Mr Smith reiterates her debt and adds that he will take swift "action" if she refuses.

Mrs Elderly gets her purse and gives Mr Smith 100 bucks.

Now, where does the law stand on this? Does the law say "Buyer Beware", it's a free country?

=====================================================================

Merrill Lynch says "Buy company X because they are good".

So, hoards of investors buy company X

Company X goes broke.

Investors a,b,c and d do their own research and find out Merrill Lynch lied.

Where does the Securities ans Exchange Commision stand on this?

I can tell you where the stand. Merrill Lynch has to pay $5,000,000.oo (true story this year)

Do you see the point yet?

==================================================================

Religious CORPORATION WTS says "Invest your life with us, for we are righteous as all get out" and here's the proof (providing lots of false history)

So, people do.

People then find out that CORPORATION WTS lied.

CORPORATION WTS then makes threat of swift "action" against those who have done their own "research" in hopes of surpressing the information that they are BANKRUPT

And you say the law says "Buyer Beware"

Going back th Mrs Elderly and Merril Lynch, tell me the difference?

Is the issue not yet painfully clear?

31

Class Action Lawsuit based on misinformation*

by biblexaminer in

i have long considered a lawsuit against the watchtower organization.

i realize that i am not the only one.

there are now presently many who are seriously considering it, and some who are actively pursuing it.

biblexaminer

A MINOR?

I was "brought up" in this religion. I HAD NO CHOICE.

I was "abused" as a minor by having my mind filled with crap.

I was, AS A MINOR, deceived into thinking that this religion had worth and could deliver on its promises.

How many good folks were deceived by JIM JONES?

Perhaps its easy to say, "TO BAD ALL THOSE PEOPLE DIED, BUT HEY THEY HAD A CHOICE."

Yeah, I guess brainwashing isn't recognized. BUT IT SOON WILL BE.

Heavens Gate, remember them??

Will society at large continue to just say "Too bad, they should have never gotten involved"?

I DON"T THINK SO.

Within a few years you are going to see a shift in peoples thinking. No longer will the attitude be "Too bad for them"

The FBI doesn't seem to think like that, and their mindset-shift will soon be reflected in society in general.

I am sorry, but people do not think "Too bad for the Heavens Gate people" or the Jim Jones dupes.

They expect that somewhere, there are authorites working to counter such things. And I believe there are.

I want to play on the future mindset, not the lame one prevalent today.

Edited by - biblexaminer on 2 October 2002 14:48:36