Branda,
Very, very, very well said. I thought my little quip was fairly well said , but yours was amazing. Direct, to the point and yet with great understanding and empathy.
Cheers,
Brad
formerout
JoinedPosts by formerout
-
160
Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
-
-
-
20
I go to Court tomorrow for Sole Custody..... I'm excited but scared too!!!!
by formerout ini am writing this partly to get straight in my mind how i want to present my material tomorrow, since i am representing myself.
but i would also love any advice that you may have to help me (other than get a lawyer.... lol... not an option unfortunately).. my ex-wife and i got separated on april 24, 2003. i spent over $12,500.00 on lawyers just to get to see my kids.
she tried everything in the book to try to prevent me from seeing them, including lying to the police and having me thrown in jail for a night, calling children's aid on me 9 times, (all not substantiated), and most recently by trying to hire someone to beat me up.. we ended up having a settlement conference on june 22, 2004, from which twenty-nine different orders were made, including joint custody with primary residence with her, that my children were ordered to not go to the kingdom hall anymore, access times, support, not moving away, etc.
-
-
formerout
For any who have paid attention..... a little update. Today I got to present my evidence to the Judge as far as the Orders my ex has broken. (By the way it was the same Judge that last week prevented her from switching the kids in the schools.)
I explained how my oldest son hasn't come for one weekend visit since the June 22nd Order was made. Approx. half the time he has been absent for me to even ask him. I am supposed to get all the kids Tues. and Wed. but she has refused to let them come both days.
I explained about how my oldest son was supposed to be weaned off of the JW religion over the next year. Due to the theory that they teach about when they are persecuted they are even more right it was supposed to happen gradually, without him knowing about it. (He's 10) The judge had a copy of the letter he gave to me on his 10th Birthday saying how he was going to go anyway even if I didn't let him but he hoped I let him go willingly (He's 10 for friggs sakes. Did I mention that?) I also mentioned that it is not my ex but her mother who has taken my children to the KH. I also said that Brandon has been living, for all intents and purposes, with her mother for about two years.
I mentioned how my ex has, since June 22nd, made the kids (the three youngest, 7,6,4) miss 27 games of soccer and hockey between the three because she either couldn't or didn't want to take them despite the Order saying that if she couldn't, I get to take them. Her reasoning, boldly asserted to me has been, "Why should I let you have extra time with them?"
She has had trouble getting the kids to school. Two years ago my oldest missed 48.5 days of school while primarily in her mother's care. An Order was put in hopefully to prevent this from happening. My oldest son had missed 9.5 days already by Nov 1st. During all this she has refused to allow me to have access to the kids at school to possibly help her in that regard. (We have Joint custody with primary residence with her, but our Board of Ed. allows the parent with primary residence to prevent the other parent from having access to the school.)
She moved to a town about 35 to 40 minutes away, despite the fact that we have lived within 2-3 minutes of her parents for twelve years. All of the kids' friends are in this one part of our city. I threw in for good measure that when she told me that she was moving and I said it wouldn't be good for the kids and it was against the Judge's Order that she said, "I don't care what the Judge says, I'm moving anyway." (More specific details were given but I have condensed it.)
The Judge turned to my ex's lawyer (I was still standing). He told the Judge that there are enough differences of opinion that this will probably have to go to trial. The Judge asked her lawyer what were evidently the Judge's biggest concerns first.
Judge - "What do you have to say regarding (oldest son) living with your client's mother?"
Lawyer - "He has never lived with her mother Your Honour."
The Judge looked back to me. I said, "If this goes to trial, Your Honour, numerous witnesses from the neighbourhood will be brought in to testify that (oldest son) has in fact been living with her mother for nearly two years." She seemed to believe me so she turned back to him.
Judge - "What about the access exchanges?"
Lawyer - "(Oldest son) has in fact gone on every access exchange with his father, but, Your Honour, the Respondent has been dragging (oldest son) to his vehicle by the back of his neck in order to get his access with him. Then usually a couple of hours later he will drop him back off at his mother's. For these reasons he has sometimes not wanted to go and has stayed at home but he has been there for every access exchange, Your Honour."
Judge - OK, I'm going to have to stop this right there. There are too many differences of opinion that are coming out that it can't possibly be dealt with today. I am going to have to stand it down to a later date." Turning to me, "But I am going to make it an early date Mr. C."
They discussed dates and she asked me if December 17th was good for me. I said it was but as I had the week before (you never know, she could be the Judge again), I wanted to refute what he said as my last statement.
I said, "Your Honour, his last statement regarding my treatment of (oldest son) is an AB-SO-LUTE LIE!!" I said it in the same volume as the rest but I definitely made it stand out.
She said, very respectfully, "Mr. C., an early date has been set so that the evidence can be presented the way it should be because as you can see we just don't have time today." She put her hands out towards the 40 or so people that had gathered in the room. When I started speaking there were about three, other than the clerks, etc. Earlier, when I was talking about my not getting to see my oldest son my emotions overcame me and I had to pause to gather myself. I tried to speak again but my voice was still cracking so she politely said take your time, Mr. C.
Overall I think she knew that he was lying but of course she has to let him spew his lies as a defense, even if the Judge, at the end makes the final determination that it is in fact all lies. Of course she can't let her true opinions out. The kids will be staying in their present school too, so that's another positive thing. I asked her if the kids could stay over at my house on Tues and Wed nights until Dec. 17th so that they didn't have to make the commute to the other city at 7:30 at night. She, once again respectfully said she couldn't because she didn't want to prjudice anybody at this point. Fair enough.
While I was waiting for the clerk to bring out the endorsement from the Judge another lawyer who had been watching the events came out and said to me, "You need to get a lawyer. There are some things you have to do but you need to get a lawyer to help you." He walked away quickly, looking back towards the courtroom seeming to see if my ex's lawyer had seen him. He hadn't.
So I am going to Legal Aid tomorow, putting a lien on the house and getting Legal Aid, which I will of course have to pay back later but I can't risk this bullshit being believed. (Long post, I know.... thanks for reading.
Brad
-
160
Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
-
-
formerout
Rune,
Have you seen the movie Mrs. Doubtfire? When Robin Williams' character is being interviewed by the social worker he cracks a few jokes. The social worker, in a very overbearing and rude manner, says "Do you think you're funny Mr.Whatever?" (I can't remember the character's name.)
He replies, "I used to think I was funny. But you however have convinced me that I am not. Thank you very much for pointing that out to me."
I feel the same way about your replies to me and every other post I have read. (I haven't read all of them.) I thought you wanted some objective viewpoints. It seems as though you don't want that. It seems as though you want to tell everybody how messed up they are, potentially in order to satify your need to express anger.
While doing it on this relatively anonymous forum is much safer than doing it in society as a whole, it still does not tend to make people admire you very much.
From the posts I have read and your subsequent comments to them it seems to me that the more open-minded, objective and quite frankly, loving people are the more you are condemning them.
Go ahead and vent if you need to, my fellow Canuck, but don't expect to convert any of us who may see the world with glasses that have a little bit more of a "rose colour" to them. Some of us like to live in what you consider our "delusional world". I'll be here smiling and with open arms when you want to join me, my friend.
Brad
-
160
Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
-
-
formerout
Interesting points Carmel. It made me think about a couple of things. As humans we do, as you said, subject ourselves to laws all the time (driving etc.) but we tend to try to avoid it in bigger laws that govern the Universe.
In another sense, if we look at the fact that we treat all humans as equals now as being a big step, it is hard to move beyond that to accepting that all creatures on the Earth and in the Universe, for that matter, are on equal terms with each other.
It's interesting that the greatest minds all seemed to ignore the things that a lot of us place importance on. Einstein, for example dressed the same all the time because he didn't want to use his brain to determine things like dress when there were so many greater thoughts for his mind to process.
Brad
-
160
Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
-
-
formerout
Hey Rune,
Those three questions are sort of intertwined so I will only give one answer.
I have questioned all those things many times as I'm sure many have. The act of questioning them in fact makes us reach out for answers to them, despite the fact that you profess to not even wanting to ask the questions, never mind getting the answers. Humans can't help it.
Sure, some people ignore the thoughts but they are always there. I think Dansk has some valid points. I certainly don't feel quite so enlightened as Dansk, but I think I am on a journey in that direction. That journey began with realizing that I DID NOT know everything. It seems like a contradiction but it is more of a human truth: The more we think we know, the less we learn; the less we learn, the more ignorant we become. By acknowledging our ignorance we actually become the most enlightened.
When it comes right down to it, unconditional love is the ultimate guide. It won't immediately stop all crime, harm and wars but I honestly feel that we have made great strides in the last millenia, and especially the last century, towards becoming a better species. Besides the amazing scientific discoveries mentioned by others here, look at what we have learned about the human mind: Positive reinforcement yields, (for a job well done, no matter how small it may seem to be to us), better results in our children than does negative consequences (for a misstep, no matter how large). Even fifty years ago the vast majority of people thought it worked better the other way around (in my family it still hasn't been learned..lol).
It is better to live with hope, pride and optimism than to live with fear, guilt and pessimism. I don't know why but it just seems to be true every time I turn around.... and I've done alot of both sides, believe me.
Brad
-
31
Non-JW teacher needing advice
by Teacher inhi there, i'm new to the board and have turned here for advice.
i am a new teacher and have a child in my class who is a jw.
as i know nothing about the religion i thought i would ask here.. i am aware that he will not be able to take part in re or religious assemblies or christmas activities.
-
-
formerout
Little1,
I did invite XQ to start a new thread on it, and he did prior to your post. However I do not agree that it was a war or that the thread was hijacked. My suggestion to move it to another topic and XQ's willingness to do so, was out of respect to the Teacher. IMO enough had been said about cults that she could see the extreme measures that parents will take to prevent their children from learning about theories other than the WTBTS' teachings.
I strongly believe that teachers should be aware of what their JW students have going on in their minds when they come to school. By having this insight they can better be equipped to present ALTERNATIVE teachings to what the WTBTS is teaching, and they can do so in the least threatening (to them) way possible. The teachers are certainly NOT going to get the WHOLE story from the JW's are they?
Once again kudos to this teacher and all others that show the extra effort to really relate to their students.
Brad
-
27
something in crisis of conscience i didnt know about... that shocked me
by candidlynuts inon page 164- 166 , in the chapter titled " double standards" subheading " two sorts of weights for measuring".
the administration of the headquarters of jehovah's witnesses many decades ago decided that, because of the exsisting law, jehovah's witnesses in mexico would present themsevles , not as a religious organization, but as a "cultural" orginazation.
the local corporation there formed " la torre del vigia,was so registered with the government of mexico(footnote).
-
-
formerout
It is shocking, to be sure. Are you aware of the other major hypocritical situation that happened in Mexico?
While the "brothers" in Malawi were being beaten up, raped and even killed due to their stance against signing up for military duty, the "brothers" in Mexico were bribing corrupt Mexican Gov't officials by paying them $25.00 for an illegal card that stated that they had already done their (I believe) one year of service in the military.
The greatest blame does not of course fall on the "brothers" in Mexico. The real guilty party was the WTBTS head honchos, since the brothers were just following their orders.
Very sad that they could be so hypocritical, at the expense of the people in Malawi. I still remember when I was a little boy and I would ask my mom to pray for me and she would ask "Jehovah" to help the brothers in Malawi. It hit home even more when I found out the bigger story.
Brad
-
9
"Kids say the darndest things."
by formerout ini have personally been reading a lot more of the "serious" posts lately and thought it would be good for me (and hopefully others) to share a bit of humour.
i will start by telling a funny little story about what my six year-old daughter said this weekend:.
i played touch football this fall on weekends.
-
-
formerout
The "stinkies" one was hillarious. Keep 'em coming.
Brad
-
9
"Kids say the darndest things."
by formerout ini have personally been reading a lot more of the "serious" posts lately and thought it would be good for me (and hopefully others) to share a bit of humour.
i will start by telling a funny little story about what my six year-old daughter said this weekend:.
i played touch football this fall on weekends.
-
-
formerout
Monkey Princess,
Very cute. It's funny how a child can repeat (or in my daughter's case just take a different definition of the word) and it can make it so funny. I can picture a small child saying what your son said and having everyone within earshot realizing how funny it was. Thanks for sharing. It has remeinded me of a few other ones from my kids.
Avishai,
I wonder why your daughter has begun to hate your impersonations. Just a "terrible two" thing maybe? I love to impersonate people as well. My kids just love them all, from my old man with a cane routine (no offense intended to any actual old men with a cane.... all done in good taste.. teehee) to other recognizable cartoon characters... it seems like kids just like a bit of a change from the ordinary, when done tastefully. Thanks.
Brad
-
46
J.W. Congregation Cleared of Abuse Charges
by Kenneson in.
the following article comes out of minnesota and is entitled "annandale church isn't liable in abuse suit.".
i'm off to work now, so don't have time to comment, but would like to post it before i leave.. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4655055.html
-
-
formerout
I know this may not be a great amount of encouragement to those frustrated by decisions like this one but it has empowered a lot of us to become more vigilant in our endeavours. It has also undoubtedly made a lot of non-JWs question the JW religion more than they would have in the past. Remember that most people do not take to heart too much of what is said by or against the Witnesses. Things like this draw attention to them, in a not-so-bright light.
Decisions made by Judges that seem, by the general public even, to be outrageous sometimes accomplish more than if their decision had given a victory for the original complainants.
Brad