wts has quite a few traits which are typical of totalitarian systems.
many of them have been demonstrated on this board (labeling, shunning, monopoly on truth, propaganda, indoctrination, polarization of reality etc.)..
there is one more aspect of the wts religion which can also be observed in most totalitarian systems and that is the system of granting privileges.
Blondie,
Thanks for the "Diary". It really makes you think, eh? There were some funny parts, sad parts and ultimately a happy ending. The most important thing is that the ending is the closest to reality of their teaching. I thought it was brilliant.
Brad
i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.
an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.
after a minute the wife turned and saw me.
I must feel the need to vent tonight.... ... this is a great place to do it.
Here's another nasty example:
Six years after the incident just mentioned in the other post by me, I did get df'd 1992. (Sex before marriage with my now ex-wife...the sex must have been good for something...we lasted 10 years..lol )
In 1997 my dad died. I was, and am, still df'd. I'm the youngest of four kids. (G,B,G,B) My dad died while in town for a circuit assembly. I never even knew he was in town. (But that's not the shunning story I'm referring to here..lol) He was the oldest of nine kids. (Lots of relatives) My brother lived 120 miles away and my sisters lived 700 and 4000 miles away. Where I live was central to the rest of the family that included people being 3000 miles away in the other direction. So the service was held here, in my town. Ironic to this day.
My sisters refused to say a single word to me when they came to the funeral. (That is still not the shunning story I'm referring to here, either... lol) My, then, wife was in good standing at the KH, and it was approved by the elders in her hall to allow the "after the funeral" gathering to be held at our house. However!!!!!!!........ (steam coming from my ears as I write this.....lol)
My dad's sister was a missionary in Africa in the past with her husband. They were/are major big-wigs in the JW religion including being fairly high up in Bethel. Her husband had never liked me, since I was very young. We had had a few very minor differences of opinion in the past but he was certainly very welcome in my home. This Uncle of mine decided (and my brother who had previously agreed with the elders' decision to have the gathering at my house) to push his weight around and prevented the gathering from being held at our house. It was held in the unfinished basement of the KH.... very respectful... instead. (My dad was on social assistance, had no savings/life insurance.. you know typical dub, so no one could afford a funeral home)
Shortly after the talk, a lot of my relatives that were non/ex-JW's wanted to come to my house to hang out. Word got around and the next thing you know EVERBODY, including my sisters (still not talking to me), brother and a lot of JW's were at my house. Guess who shows up??!!
Yup, the Uncle who said it would be disrespectful to Jehovah to have any goings on at terrible old Brad's house no longer had ANYBODY to talk to at the KH, so he comes to my house.... big fucking hypocrite. He is an arrogant prick who constantly needs his ego caressed, so he couldn't just go back to the hotel. He had to come to my house and shmooze.
Out of respect for my father and all the other relatives, I never said anything but it just goes to show how hypocritical they can be.
That felt good. Thanks.
Brad
i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.
an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.
after a minute the wife turned and saw me.
Here's a good one,
I was 16. My parents and I had moved 400 miles away from home so that my dad could go to a special doctor. We were living with my dad's parents. After 7 months, my parents had to move back home early and I stayed for a month to finish the school year.
I had been going to all the meetings, never got into any trouble whatsoever, but this one elder in my hall went around to four other fathers in two different KH's and convinced these fathers to not let their kids hang around me. He told them that I had too much freedom and I was a bad influence on them. He did this only AFTER my father had left town. I was not df'd, da'd, reproved and this "elder" did it all without even coming to say a word to me. It was completely of his own doing. Originally the fathers of my other friends went along with him.
Suddenly I had absolutley NO people to hang around with. I had lived in the town for only 7 months and I never made any "wordly" friends of course. Even at meetings, he never allowed his son to talk to me. The loneliness forced me into action... self-protection I guess.
I went to all the other dads, on my own, (my grandparents were extremely passive and could have been accused of being uncaring ) and reasoned with them that despite the fact that I may have had more freedom than their sons, I never did anything that was not allowed by them, the fathers.
Each and every one of the fathers that had been approached by the original elder began allowing their sons to hang around me. (They were all elders too.) Eventually the original elder's son began going behind his father's back to hang around us. (His dad would not let him go out if I was involved.)
Talk about an idiot elder. He caused his own son to disrespect him because he attempted to so unfairly control him.
Fortunately I was able and willing to stand up for myself and it turned out fine, but I can imagine how many others just accept the sh*t that these elders dish out.
Brad
i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.
an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.
after a minute the wife turned and saw me.
EyeKinCeeClearly,
What you have gone through is truly sad. I'm glad you are moving on with your life now in a positive way.
Brad
steelers v. jaguars just ended.
wow, my pulse is pounding.
i haven't felt like this about football since we went to the superbowl in 1995. wow.
Football? FOOTBALL?!
I'd sooner call myself a Jehovah's Witness than concede the game you guys are talking about is actually football!! We've had all this out before [ http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/4328/1.ashx ], when will you dear Americans learn?
Nic'
A perfect example of why we don't go to the stadiums to watch soccer football games in Britain...... the fans... ... the black eye was for calling it soccer.... lol
Brad
wts has quite a few traits which are typical of totalitarian systems.
many of them have been demonstrated on this board (labeling, shunning, monopoly on truth, propaganda, indoctrination, polarization of reality etc.)..
there is one more aspect of the wts religion which can also be observed in most totalitarian systems and that is the system of granting privileges.
JTP,
In a very few days you have already made quite a few great comments already and this one is no exception either. I thought your points about jobs that they typically fill was a very valid observation:
But my theory is that people need something fulfilling in their life, career, religion, relationship, etc... and some people have such empty lives that the "title" and "power" in the religion does it for them.
I have always felt..... (and I hope I'm not unwittingly insulting anyone here either.. but....) .. that it's kind of like a security guard mentality. The power that they have is peanuts compared to cops... to the rest of the world at least... but they delude themselves with thinking that they have the same power.
Witnesses are a parallel..... they delude themselves with these positions of power... whether it be elders, ministerial servants, mics, talks, even hours in field service.... but it is never a true representation of having any REAL power. Real power comes from personal freedom.... to think and act FREELY, yet in a positive way. That's why when we get out we see the difference so well. The truth was out here, yet hidden from us when we were inside.
Brad
i was going to add this to a comment to a post of mine in rune's topic "why?
" (if anybody was paying attention to it) but i figured i would start my own thread on it.. i have always liked quotes, especially very profound life lessons revealed in a short quip.. one of my favorites is by michel de montaigne: .
"man is surely stark mad.
I was going to add this to a comment to a post of mine in Rune's topic "Why? Why? WHY???" (if anybody was paying attention to it) but I figured I would start my own thread on it.
I have always liked quotes, especially very profound life lessons revealed in a short quip.
One of my favorites is by Michel de Montaigne:
"Man is surely stark mad. For he cannot create a flea, but he makes Gods by the dozens."
What is/are yours?Brad
ok. i have some questions, and thought this may be a place to get some answers.. i'm going to be honest here, so please don't bash me too much, as i was never a jw.. in july i was out at a drinking establishment in my home town.
my husband and i have been having marital trouble, and we were trying a trial seperation.
guys were hitting on me left and right--which i had absolutely no interest in.
I would agree with Jared that your first step should be to find out about his lifestyle. Like Jared said, he is either no longer a JW, or on the edge of leaving or he is "leading a double life" as they call it, because he is not supposed to be associating with you even if he is a JW in good standing.
As nice as the guy is, IMHO, if he is a devout JW who just broke the rules for a few days, I would reinstate my opinion that you should get out of there. Most of the time the JWs' true personalities don't come out when you first meet them. A lot of their beliefs are unhealthy, especially for women who seem to be as independent as you do.
As far as oral sex goes, I believe the guys who run the JW religion have kind of tried to keep their noses out of that area (no pun intended...lol) lately, but yeah, they used to pretty much say that only "missionary" was OK.
Hope this helps. Let us know what his standing is when you find it out.
Brad
ok. i have some questions, and thought this may be a place to get some answers.. i'm going to be honest here, so please don't bash me too much, as i was never a jw.. in july i was out at a drinking establishment in my home town.
my husband and i have been having marital trouble, and we were trying a trial seperation.
guys were hitting on me left and right--which i had absolutely no interest in.
Simple advice, Jellybean...... RUN!!!
Brad
(P.S. I am kidding..... partly.... lol. I will read you entire post later to see if I can help you in any way. )
.
is that true?
frankie,
As you bring out, differences of opinion lead to conflict,,and that is because there is no real love,, just attachment,,possesiveness,, and seeking satisfaction of desires. Real love is "not" seeking personal satisfaction,, "not" being possesive,,"not" seeking attachment to combat our loneliness.
I'm not sure if I am getting your point or not, but if I am then I would agree with Brenda's opinion that unconditional love is not possible to sustain in a relationship. Sometimes the partner might just screw up. If I screw up, I expect my partner to point it out to me. However I may not listen properly when it is pointed out to me and an argument (i.e. possessing our differing opinions) results.
Unconditional love is a good model to hold out to reach for, but isn't it also necessary to realize that it is not always possible to attain. We are inherently imperfect after all.
Brad
