Posts by formerout

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

Rune wants answers to appease a vacancy in his psyche created by no longer wanting to belong to a high-control religion.Who wouldn't want answers??, but I wouldn't call it a vacancy in his psyche because he questions the basis for many peoples unprovable ideas...

I understand what you are saying and we have given him credit for asking intelligent questions, however I don't think it would be wise to suggest that his interest is NOT the most important here. He is human after all. He doesn't have to ask these profound questions to have differing opinions thrown at him. He has asked them and we have complied. To condemn either party at this point would refute the entire process.

The vast majority of posters on this topic have offered up thoughts that may be considered evasive to someone who's psyche has just taken the big jump from "high-control" to completely free.While I don't think it was the vast majority, I think those that answered with your too young to have a valid opinion, or you haven't smelled a certain continent, may have been slightly evasive and avoided giving any valid proof.

Age (young) and experience (Africa) are 100% valid as far as having a BETTER understanding of the world around us. (Just ask me how much I thought I knew 10 years ago, before having children, and I will be the first to say I thought I almost knew it all. My perception has changed since then.) Everybody has given him full respect for his introspective mind. It is not fair for comments such as his age or experiences to be taken out of context and be used to suggest that their opinions are therefore invalid.

Regarding evasiveness, some try to avoid using absolutes, due to experience in life. Their being considered evasive cannot be judged properly by a person who leaves virtually no option for a second opinion.

He has since presented very intelligent questions that many of us have already considered.I'm just starting to consider these questions myself and am enjoying the free exchange of ideas that you can find here.

You will find people like Big Tex, LT, Narkissos et al to be very valuable teachers. May your questions always be asked and may you never find the ABSOLUTE answer to any of them.

Rune's subconscious does not want absolutes but his conscious mind has been imbedded with the opposite so that his reaction has seemed to be rejecting our fairly wise thoughts.I'm sorry, which ones? :)

Very witty, but I don't think you would have posted the other comments if you truly felt that there were no "wise thoughts" here.

Welcome to the journey, my friend. You will enjoy the ride. You have at least agreed to get on that ride. Lots never allow themselves such freedom.

Brad

120

"I noticed you are on a JW site, DID YOU KNOW I AM A JW?????"

by Jez in

i was at university the other night in the computer lab, cruising this site, well a fellow classmate who has been in my class since sept and we have become friends, walks past, looks at the site i am on and says, "i noticed you are on a jw site, did you know i am a jw, are you one?".

i was shocked.

i turned to him and let loose,.

formerout

Jez,

I have skipped the last couple of pages in this topic. However I did start to notice that your original, intelligent discussion with us had been taken over by, mostly close-minded (....ummm.. try to be polite, Brad..yes, I know it's stretch but use the NICE word..lol) people who are not ready to accept reality.

Much like Jesus is responsible for Christianity, you are solely () responsible for this unreasonable behaviour. Just to be sure of your forgiveness, I think it would be wise for you to say 1) - 10 Hail Mary's, 2) - pray to Jehoober, 3) - admit your wrong to Joseph Smith.... etc.

Look at what happens when you try to do a good thing and help others... anarchy arises.

Take care sweetie,

Brad

47

You can't describe real LOVE you can only decribe what it isn't.

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

.

is that true?

formerout

frankie,

Is it too early in the topic to ask your opinion on the subject?

If your question is, "Is it easier to recognize anger or hatred, (for example), of being the opposite of love?", then I would suggest it would depend how aware you are of what real love is still.

Is it possible to know what loss is if something has never been acquired?

From my experience in my short life, it seems to all be relative. I never really knew how to describe love 5 years ago but it seems that it's because I had never really experienced it yet.

That having been said, however, I don't think we can ever lose the understanding of "real" love after we have experienced it.

Brad

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

formerout

Ringo5,

I am interested to hear your assessment of the post I made just before yours came up. Please share your thoughts, as it seems that you have read the whole topic?

Brad

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

formerout

I have read this topic from beginning to end. Believe me, no one has ever accused me of blowing smoke up anybody's ass, (quite the opposite) but I have also learned to give credit where credit is due. Sometimes situations arise where one party is so off-base that acknowledgement NEEDS to be given to those who are patient and persistent enough to try to help that person, even when I have not been able to do it myself, due to my emotions getting in the way.

Here is my assessment of this topic (and I recognize that its not infallible by any stretch of the imagination, however I feel that my patience, from a distance, makes what I say worthy of consideration):

Rune wants answers to appease a vacancy in his psyche created by no longer wanting to belong to a high-control religion.

In an effort to find such fulfillment he has come here (and quite possibly other places) to fill voids opened up by this freedom ne'er before available.

He has since presented very intelligent questions that many of us have already considered.

Throughout our consideration of these same (or at least very similar questions), prior to Rune's welcome appearance on this forum, most of us have adapted our thinking to avoid absolutes, (either in praise or condemnation), as the most accurate answers to these questions.

The vast majority of posters on this topic have offered up thoughts that may be considered evasive to someone who's psyche has just taken the big jump from "high-control" to completely free.

Rune's subconscious does not want absolutes but his conscious mind has been imbedded with the opposite so that his reaction has seemed to be rejecting our fairly wise thoughts.

Through unavoidables that are due to inherent human nature, such as emotion, some of us have confirmed Rune's convictions and doubts.

Rune himself has also been guilty of letting that goddamn emotional "weakness" get in the way.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I have grown from this discussion. I wish to thank Rune for starting it and sticking with it. He has definitely spent a lot of time and put forward a lot of emotion (), that has to be respected. LT, Big Tex, Narkissos, kitties_and_horses (insert your name here if I missed you).... thanks!!!

Brad (of the "of course my opinion could be just COMPLETELY WHACKED class".

11

Best Biographies

by Valis in

i'm looking for new biographies to give as xmas gifts this year.

anyone have suggestions or ones they have enjoyed recently?.

sincerely,.

formerout

Valis,

I can't help you out this year but next Christmas my autobiography will be available.

I'm writing it for the main reason of it being therapy for me, but hey, you never know, it might catch on.

Brad

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

formerout

Rune,

If I may make a quick observation. It seems that you believe that showing emotion during a debate means that all objectivity is lost. Having made that assumption, I do not think that it is even possible for emotion to be completely left out of any conversation. Humans are innately emotional. Just as we are also innately intellectual.

Therefore, while I am not saying that you don't have some valid points here, the people who have been MORE honest and accurate in this discussion are the ones who have admitted that they are in fact being emotional, to a certain degree.

It is hard for me to accept that you are calling these people "delusional".

* Human = emotional being

* During debate one party admits this = honesty

*Other party's basic argument is that emotion = loss of objectiveness

* Neither party is ABSOLUTELY right.

* However, by a preponderence of the evidence, a determination is made that the party ackowledging a basic human tendency over which he may try to minimize for the debate's sake, but will never be able to eliminate altogether is slightly MORE right.

Do you find that argument within any realm of possibility?

Brad

67

What sports are considered violent and forbidden by Jehovah?

by jwbloodline in

i'm a bible student and the i've been told that this issue depends on my conscience.. .

i am a jiu jitsu student and have been for a 4 years.

it's more of a sport.

formerout

Big Tex,

Sorry to hear about the trauma you suffered at the hands of your family. From the posts you make, it seems like you have recovered well from incidents that children should never have to experience. Your anger is certainly justified due to the lack of help these elders should have given you.

I'm curious to see if BroBennett will have the balls to make a comment on it.

Brad

46

What is your most ridiculous example of being shunned?

by formerout in

i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.

an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.

after a minute the wife turned and saw me.

formerout

I was just having lunch in a Wendy's near my house an hour ago. An elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area. After a minute the wife turned and saw me. She spoke to her husband and they got out of line and left.

This was a fairly large Wendy's and it was pretty empty. They could have easily sat in an area far enough away that I never would have heard what they were saying or have to make eye contact with them even, but they were so pathetic that they left. How paranoid (insert whichever adjective you wish rather than "paranoid") is that? I could care less really but how much does that show their own level of fear of the rest of the world?

What is the most ridiculous example of JWs avoiding you?

Brad

67

What sports are considered violent and forbidden by Jehovah?

by jwbloodline in

i'm a bible student and the i've been told that this issue depends on my conscience.. .

i am a jiu jitsu student and have been for a 4 years.

it's more of a sport.

formerout

BroBennett said:

But, Jeff... you are only interested in debating with me since I have all the answers but you choose to be in the dark still.

Your comment is arrogant and hypocritical. People only debate when they feel that the other party does NOT have all the answers. Otherwise why would they even waste a word. Silly man.

Most people are trying to give some TRULY objective advice to the original poster, jwbloodline who, in most ex-JWs' opinions is unfortunately still a JW.

Brad