Posts by bjc2012

39

My congregation & the UN (Update)...

by caballoSentado in

jw
friends

hi friends,.

firstly, excuse any errors since this is not my native language.

this is my second post.

bjc2012

Hi Caballo:

So, a sincere christian (any JW should be that) should try to please God, even if that action puts your relation with the organization at risk… I'd rather risk my relationship with the Society than my relationship with God & Christ… I cannot think of this UN affair in any other way….

I must agree.

But your comment above does bring one important question to mind. At this point in your life, after discovering what you have about the WTS/UN-NGO Affair,

Do you personally feel you will be able to maintain your spiritual "relationship with God & Christ" while remaining a part of the "idolatrous" JW Organization, especially in view of the fact that you now have full knowledge of the GB/UN Affair? In other words, shouldn't you be "fleeing from idolatry", or in this case, "fleeing" from an "idolatrous" organization as God's Word directs? (Mark 13:14; 1 Corinthians 10:14)

bjc

39

My congregation & the UN (Update)...

by caballoSentado in

jw
friends

hi friends,.

firstly, excuse any errors since this is not my native language.

this is my second post.

bjc2012

you know said,

...As it stands Jehovah also allows "an operation of error" to go forth among his people.

Again, "open mouth, insert foot".

As Jesus said, "You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures, nor the power of God". (Matthew 22:29)

And that's your problem, You Know.

Let me explain.

For the benefit of JW-novices who may be wondering, I perceive your above scriptural quotation is taken from 2 Thessalonians. 2:11, 12 which says,

"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that THEY ALL MAY BE JUDGED because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess. 2:11, 12)

Now, why in the world would you use these verses to prove your point, You Know?

I say this because this verse speaks of the DIVINE PENALTY enacted upon those who are clearly the unwitting loyal followers of the "man of lawlessness" in his open "rebellion" and "apostasy" against God. The "operation of error" is their "judgment" from God, collectively as a people who are clearly disloyal to God. And because of this, the verse plainly says, they are "ALL JUDGED" by God. That's "ALL", as in all. So say the Holy Scriptures.

So, as you have so adroitly pointed out You Know, if we should apply this scripture and prophecy to Jehovah's Witnesses, then that would unavoidably and inescapably mean that "All" Jehovah's Witnesses must be in great danger. Because of the "operation of error" that God justly sends upon the wicked. That means "ALL" Jehovah's Witnesses are headed for disaster and this FINAL "JUDGMENT" at God's hands. That's if I am left to believe the scripture you have quoted above.

And that would be a very ominous future for ALL Jehovah's Witnesses, who wickedly and unrepentantly continue to follow the "man of lawlessness", aka, Governing Body.

So if what you say is true, and God does "let the operation of error" go to Jehovah's Witnesses, then ALL OF THEM are affected. The prophecy would mean inevitably, Divine "Judgment" awaits "ALL" Jehovah's Witnesses, unless they repent. That's why I say, you know "neither the scriptures [you avidly quote], nor the power of God". (Matt. 22:29)

Please be advised, if what you say above has indeed occurred, and Jehovah's Witnesses have received of the "operation of error", then the Holy Scriptures assure us, they are "ALL" headed for "Judgment" with you, You Know, quite possibly leading the way.

Case closed.

bjc

39

My congregation & the UN (Update)...

by caballoSentado in

jw
friends

hi friends,.

firstly, excuse any errors since this is not my native language.

this is my second post.

bjc2012

You Know said,

...And as you admit it was only by diligent investigation on your part that you uncovered that the Watchtower Society had a secret connection to the UN as an NGO. But this in no way effects the lives and faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in that the Watchtower has not overtly made this affliation known, nor have they encouraged the flock to support the UN in any special way. That's not to say that the Watchtower has not acted treacherously and HYPOCRITICALLY. They have. And I belive they have compromised the organization in Jehovah's eyes.

So then, if the Governing Body has "acted hypocritically" in God's eyes with respect to the secret 10-year UN-NGO Affair, then their wicked "hypocrisy" acts as unholy "LEAVEN" that spreads and permeates the entire congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses earthwide. Their unholy "hypocrisy" would act then, precisely the same as the insidious "hypocrisy" of the Pharisees, which we remember had the affect of wicked CONTAMINATION upon the spiritual worship of the nation of Israel during Jesus' day.

Jesus plainly said,

"...Watch out for the LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES, WHICH IS HYPOCRISY." (Luke 12:1)

And, if "hypocrisy" is considered spiritually "leavenous" to the congregation in God's eyes, then, as every christian knows,

"A little leaven ferments the whole lump." (Galatians 5:9)

Thus, the "whole lump", the earthwide congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are adversely affected by this "innocent" hypocrisy, you speak of, with respect to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. The ones who have hatched, conspired and secretly perpetrated this heinous act upon the congregation of God.

Needless to say, this makes the Governing Body exactly like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day, in whom Jesus felt compelled to expose by saying,

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which OUTWARDLY, INDEED APPEAR BEAUTIFUL but inside are full of dead men's bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, OUTWARDLY INDEED, APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but inside you are FULL OF HYPOCRISY and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:27, 28)

So, You Know, you are wrong again.

bjc

39

My congregation & the UN (Update)...

by caballoSentado in

jw
friends

hi friends,.

firstly, excuse any errors since this is not my native language.

this is my second post.

bjc2012

Hi CaballoSentado,

Below are some WT quotes from the website:

http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/united_nations.htm

*** Watchtower 1999 May 1 p.15 "Let the Reader Use Discernment" ***
A Modern-Day "Disgusting Thing"

7 Since World War I, we have seen the larger fulfillment of Jesus' sign recorded in Matthew chapter 24. Yet, recall his words: "When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place, . . . then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." (Matthew 24:15, 16) This aspect of the prophecy must have a fulfillment in our time too.

8 Demonstrating the confidence of Jehovah's servants that this prophecy would be fulfilled, The Watchtower of January 1, 1921, focused on it in connection with developments in the Middle East. Subsequently, in its December 15, 1929, issue, on page 374, The Watchtower definitively said: "The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God." So in 1919 "the disgusting thing" appeared. In time, the League gave way to the United Nations. Jehovah's Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God's sight.
[End of quote]

So, according to the above statement, the UN is the ‘disgusting thing’ that Jesus spoke about. Your only question should be this: Does their becoming an NGO in association with the Department of Public Information of the UN fulfill the scripture, that is, is the ‘disgusting thing’ standing in a holy place? Are the ‘anointed’ acting in harmony with the following statement as they claim to be?

*** Watchtower November 15, 2001 ***
Anointed Christians are like alien residents living in tents apart from this system of things. Not even a plague draws near their tent. Whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we are no part of the world, and we are not infected by such spiritually deadly plagues as its immorality, materialism, false religion and worship of the 'wild beast' and it's 'image', the United Nations.
[end of quote]

Were they involved with the UN to the point of being infected with what they call ‘spiritually deadly plagues’ and therefore have allowed this disgusting thing to stand where it ought not to? (You are aware that they wrote articles in Awake! that were supportive of the UN, beginning with the 9/8/91 issue?)

If you answer yes to these questions, then you have ‘caught sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation.’ You had better heed Jesus’ advice and ‘flee to the mountains’ and do so with urgency. If you wait until they ‘place the beast,’ it will be too late to flee in safty. (Daniel 11:31b)

bjc

25

Watchtower says Dos and Don'ts are out

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

among the latest instructions to the rank and file witnesses is this one:.

"following bible principles, we will avoid trying to live (or demand others to live) by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the bible.

" (the watchtower - issue of april 15,2002, page 22, para 15).

bjc2012

"Following Bible principles, we will avoid trying to live (or demand others to live) by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible." (The Watchtower - issue of April 15,2002, page 22, para 15)

This, I believe, is the way the above statement is meant to be understood:

"Following Bible principles, you, the rank and file, will avoid trying to set extensive and rigid rules of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible for yourselves and others to live by, as that is our, your leadership's, prerogative."

bjc

8

You Know--Way Off Base Once Again...

by stocwach in

jw
friends

quote:.

we could also say that the apostolic decision on circumcision was "new light.

" which, incidently, cause many jews to stumble out of the truth and become enemies of the torture stake as judaizers.

bjc2012

You Know,

Christ even foretold that during his presence "many will be stumbled."

He also said at Matthew 18:7: "Woe to the world due to the stumbling blocks! Of course, the stumbling blocks must of necessity come, but woe to the man through whom the stumbling block comes!

Paul associates stumbling with a lack of accurate knowledge. Philippians 1:9,10 reads: "And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ." At Romans 16:17, he also warns: "Now I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teachings that you have learned and avoid them." Stumbling others is here also associated with inaccurate knowledge, teachings contrary to truth.

So, there you have it. It's an unfortunate thing that brothers and sisters are stumbled, but it's just the way things are at the moment.

The reason many, as you stated, are stumbled is given at Psalms 119:165, which reads: "Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is no stumbling block."

Stumbling is a two way street: those who stumble others lack accurate knowledge and those who are stumbled also lack accurate knowledge. Both will end up in the same place.

In the 13th chapter of Matthew Jesus foretold that at some point his angels would go forth to "collect out of my kingdom ALL THINGS CAUSING STUMBLING." That means that, contrary to your twisted reasoning, there are things of error that cause stumbling and that Jehovah allows such things within the congregations under Christ's kingdom; and, until that time when the angels take care of business,

Not true. What you're looking at is His allowing the development of the situation described at Zechariah 13:8,9 where the organization will be divided into two parts, the two-thirds who are slated for destruction and the one-third that He will save by bringing them through the fire. The angels will deal with the third-part of the organization not the whole of them as two-thirds are not worthy of any consideration. Remember Paul's words at Romans 9:27: "Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved." The majority will not make it.

part of our test as Christians is dealing with the things that cause stumbling.

Does that include accepting your leadership's association with the UN as simply being an error that could cause stumbling when you yourself said in another post that it was spiritual adultery (I believe you said it was marrying the daughter of a foreign god)? I believe that you also mentioned something about 'community guilt' associated with this sin. You are, or should be, aware that this association with the UN is not simply an error, but is what Jesus describes as 'the disgusting thing as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place' from which he said the disciples were to 'flee to the mountains.' Many like you who insist that they are not going to be stumbled away from the orgnization are going to reap the whirlwind of Jehovah's displeasure for not recognizing that the time for fleeing is NOW. Where is the discernment (the full discernment and accurate knowledge that Paul spoke of) that is called for in these most perilous times?

Sadly, many have failed the test.

Failed what test? The test of loyalty to an organization? The real test is loyalty to Jehovah not to an organization. An organization that claims to teach truth but is not, and furthermore, doesn't even recognize this fact, or should I say refuses to recognize this fact, is disloyal to Jehovah. For instance, they have received a ton of information showing that their 1914 teaching is incorrect but they refuse to acknowledge this. They prefer clinging to a falsehood rather than admit they are wrong. Anyone remaining with this organization when he knows the leadership does not 'love God's law,' is not loyal to truth, has failed the test of loyalty.

bjc

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

bjc2012

Smitty,

Please reread my post. It is an earthly temple being measured.

I agree, measuring does not mean that something is wrong, but it is the means by which the determination is made whether everything is as it should be or are there problems. In this case, serious failures were uncovered by the measuring. In Revelation 21, the temple is again measured and it meets God's standard. The trampling has accomplished its purpose.

bjc

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

bjc2012

Smitty,

Why would a heavenly temple need to be measured? It has to be earthly because the courtyard, which is not to be measured, is given to the nations to trample underfoot for forty-two months. Obviously those measured are the priests, that is the leadership. They have failed miserably in carrying out their responsibilities. That is why the two witnesses have to prophecy to them.

bjc

13

Last Magazine Arrived Today

by out4good3 in

jw
friends

after i got home from work i looked in my mailbox and lo and behold what do i find.......the very last magazine from the now discontinued subscription of the awake and wt.

no more will these magazines stack up on our kitchen table unread by my wife who claims to believe but almost never go to meetings.

no more will these magazines stack up on the bottom of the bookcase in our study.

bjc2012

NYTELECOM1,

Explain yourself. Jehovah's love is conditional towards whom? The only time I've see the words 'if you obey me' in the bible, they were directed to those who are in a covenant with Jehovah. How can you apply those words to someone who is not in a covenant with God? I was told by the WTS that only the 'anointed' are in a covenant with Jehovah. Has this changed? If not, then are you saying that Jehovah's love is conditional towards the anointed since they are the only ones who have a covenant with God, according to your teachings?

bjc

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

bjc2012

Ianao,

Wow! There's nothing like free advertising. It doesn't matter who's posting, if it's anything about Israel, it must be us. Well, at least we've made an impression on someone on this board whether good or bad. The only request that I have is that you mention 'The Report' along with our names. That would help tremendously. Keep up the good work!

bjc