Posts by steve2

14

How's this for an effective anti-Watchtower media campaign?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

bear with me, you'll soon see where this is going......... i was listening to radio 5 live (uk) this morning.

a chap was being interviewed about a campaign he has started in brighton to save his local football club and its ground - full story here.

what he and his friends have done is release a record!

steve2

I've a possibly better and more lucrative suggestion. Let's produce a song or two that supports the JW-line; we'd have a prospective customer-base of several million:

How about a re-wording of the Carole King double-side hit "It's Too Late"/"I Feel the Earth Move", which both had an enormous personal impact on me when they were released in 1971 - four years before 1975!

"It's Too Late" can emphasize the "end-of-the-world's-so-close-there's-nothing-you-can-do-to-stop-it" mentality and "I Feel the Earth Move" can be the "constant-citing-of-meteorological-evidence-that-the-end's-coming-any-time now" (i.e., 'earthquakes', 'men ruining the earth', unusual weather patterns, etc).

Released in the weeks leading up to the 2005 memorial, such a double-sided single would rocket to the top of the charts in time for the first crackle of unleavened bread and sip of wine.

36

If You HAD To Be Disfellowshipped For Something, What Would It Be?

by minimus in

jw
friends

apostasy?

fornication?

drugs?......what???

steve2

Forget boring old fornication and apostasy; they're so yesterday. Here are a raft of things I would have loved to have been disfellowshipped for:

For buying hundreds and hundreds and hundreads of Awakes! and Watchtowers, and using them as interior wall insulation. I'd like to be exposed after say, three years for this. My house should be cooking by then.

For frequenting cafes all morning for six months on end and then still putting in my time as a pioneer;

For calling out, "Yeah! Right on brother [or sister]" every time someone officially answers questions during the meetings;

For insisting during the same meetings that the world in fact did end in 1914...and in 1925 and in 1975;

For insisting that I'm one of the remnant simply because I want something to do to cope with the boredom during the memorial;

For publicly and loudly refusing to have blood transfusions, even though I'm in fighting good physical health and don't need one;

steve2

8

Jacko Accuser's Family Has History of Charity

by Yizuman in

jw
friends

story.

click here.

yiz

steve2

Mary I strongly agree with your comments!

Given the past accusations - including the huge financial payment to the accusers - it was absolutely imperative that Michael take extra care never ever to be in a situation again in which he could be accused of sexually molesting children.

Yet what did he do? He smugly shared with newsmedia his love of having sleepovers with children and insisted in his inimitable spoiled-brat way that there was nothing wrong with it! Not a good idea.

Whether the man is innocent or not, his attitude is not much different from known child molesters who drone on about their innocent and often continue insisting that they have a right to unsupervised access to children.

As a clinical psychologist who has worked in prisons assessing and treating convicted sex offenders, I was often astonished at the audacity and sense of entitlement of these offenders. Yes, a few readily got the point: Once an accusation is made, You not only have to do right around children, you also have to be seen to do right.

I recently read somewhere (perhaps another reader will remember the source; it eludes me at present) that Michael's advisers were loathe to even gently confront him about some of his idiosyncratic practices - especially the sleep overs with children - because he would at best ignore them and at worst sack them. Hence his team of advisers simply told him what he wanted to hear.

To me it is so blatantly obvious: If a person has already been accused of child molestation, do NOT put yourself back into a situation where you may end up facing new accusations!

Sadly, Michael acts and thinks like the superstar he used to be: He has acted as if he is above the law and has a right to so-called "innocent" sleepovers with children. (Perhaps now the parents should also take some responsibility for allowing their children into his bedroom over night - but that is a separate issue, worthy of separate consideration).

Bad move Michael even though your Off the Wall antics must have been a Thriller; it's Dangerous and, given the charges, you're History (Sorry, I can't remember what his latest CD was called).

37

reinstatement

by sugarbritches in

jw
friends

hi does anyone know what the procedure is for reinstatement?

i love this forum- you guys are all great.

sugarbritches

steve2

Can I give the perfect answer to this question (it may even give the JWs goosebumps of delight):

The way to begin the process of reinstatement is to contact the local elders (preferably in writing) and they will take it from there. One contact is made, there will be absolutely no gaps in your knowledge about what you have to do to be re-instated.

Should you not hear back from them after say, three or four years, think about writing another letter...or be outrageous and just enjoy the freedom.

steve2

75

The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron in

when a witness encounters injustices engendered by the watchtower and considers them.

with clarity of mind, he is likely to suppose that , at worst, the old men who run things.

are sincere but misguided.

steve2

This is one of the most interesting threads I've yet read. Thank you metatron.

Room 215 - yours is a persuasive view, one I hadn't thought of before. I've scrolled through a few times and want to acknowledge the views of itsallgoodnow, ko38, jgnat, Doubtfully Yours, Alan F, willyloman and others whose posts have kept me tuned in.

If I can add my view (which I acknowledge is not unique): It is people who actually believe that something is the truth - and who have grandiose views about their own special role - who have the largest capacity to behave and speak in deceitful ways; the end justifies the means. Therefore, someone can be both sincere in his religious beliefs and a deliberate deceiver.

Remember the glee with which JWs - including possibly ourselves when we were JWs- would quote Jesus's words when they attempted to defend their religion: "Be as cunning as serpents but innocent as doves" .

The Watchtower Society has for decades been deeply into impression management. Among other things, that means that it's not what's actually happening that is important, but the sanitised impression of what is happening. Winston Smith is well aware of this!

The Watchtower Society constantly holds up its rank and file as shining examples of fine preachers of the good news and, at the same time, takes cheap critical shots at the rank and file who belong to other religions. How dare the Watchtower Society do this when their own statistics show that increasing numbers of JWs are slowing down in the preaching work and even becoming inactive. Ah, but for them to do anything differently would imply they had modified their view of their own role in the outworking of Bibilical prophecy.

No wonder the GB can hold two almost opposing ideas; namely, 1) the urgent message about the end coming real soon and 2)the need to more fully establish the publishing and printing organisation with a view to carrying out the preaching work in the years to come!

steve2

54

THE GENERATION OF 1914

by Mary in

jw
friends

it makes you wonder when exactly the governing body and their lawyers decided to change the "generation of 1914" doctrine.

the first quotation below is from the 1992 wt and the second one from the 1993 brochure the purpose of life, just two lousy years before they imfamously dropped the whole idea:

*** w92 5/1 p. 7 the 1914 generation?why significant?

steve2

Well said stopthepain: "I believe that many families and younger generations are involved with the organization out of convienience.The organization gives them the sense of being different,with all the perks of a social club.Thats why these huge screw ups don't effect therm.they like what they have.What would they do without it."

Given the fact that the Watchtower Society has chopped and changed so much of its "eschatology" (i.e., end times beliefs), it raises the question, "What would have to happen for the "average" JW to really begin to actively question the organisation?"

9

Therapy?

by peggy in

jw
friends

steve2

Peggy I think you have raised a really good question.

Since leaving the JWs in 1982, I commenced my university education, but continued to believe that to seek "therapy" would imply I was somehow mentally unwell. The stigma was enough to control me, yet I also knew underneath it all that I would be capable of leading a fuller life if I resolved issues from my JW past. As my studies at university progressed, and I was able to challenge some of my assumptions about what it meant to "go into" psychotherapy, I began to see the value of sensibly working through some of the big issues in my life.

I was fortunate to find a psychotherapist who showed unconditional positive regard, yet at the same time, empthatically confronted me about those long-held assumptions I clung to about how life "should" be lived. This was focused, goal-oriented, time-limited psychotherapy and the therapist respected my religious ambivalence and was open to feedback about how my JW background had affected me - both the positive and negative experiences. He allowed me to tell my "story".

It is now just over five years since I completed my PhD in psychology and my diploma in clinical psychology.I am now a registered clinical psychologist working for the local hospital with a clientele consisting of highly suicidal clients. Confidentiality prevents me from giving information regarding the specific religious denominations of clients and patients. Suffice to say that no religious organisation is able to say that its members are immune to psychological problems. Clients come from all walks of life, including all religions and cults.

From my work, clients who make the most progress are those who have a capacity to rationally think through issues for themselves. For many clients, it is a long hard journey, but with good therapeutic models (e.g., Leslie Greenberg's emotion-focussed therapy or Jeffrey Young's schema therapy), recovery and learning to live life more fully are frequent outcomes. (Both Greenberg and Young have excellent websites. Another therapeutic approach is provided by Babette Rothschild who specialises in treating complex post-traumatic stress disorder - an array of life problems that stem from abusive backgrounds. Her approach is especially relevant to ex-JWs who remain traumatised by their involvement in the Watchtower.)

Looking back on my own journey since leaving the Watchtower, I have become a strong advocate of people taking steps to resolve the pain and hurt of the past and also acquire the skills to take more personal responsibility for how they live their lives. Lastly, and very importantly, I do not wish to imply that everyone who leaves the Watchtower needs psychotherapy. On the other hand, I have observed people who have left strict religions, including the JWs, who appear unable to deal with the strong emotions and who settle for far less than they're capable of achieving in their lives.

Good, supportive, focused - and time limited - psychotherapy may be just what they need to resolve the pain and find a more helpful path through their lives.

52

What's The Best Way To Jolt A Witness' Thinking???

by minimus in

jw
friends

.

anything that you think effectively gets a jw to re-think their position on things or their beliefs, in general?

?

steve2

The question is not how do you jolt a JW into thinking, but rather, how do you jot them into acting on their thinking. Doubt of one kind or another is rampant in the organisation. So, it's not that JWs are incapable of thinking - and having doubts. It's encouraging them to see that they can do something about their doubts...that there are healthy choices beyond the Watchtower's walls.

20

WATCHTOWER IS A REGISTERED TRADEMARK!

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

i see in the 1 january 2005 watchtower that it has a r surrounded by a circle indicating that watchtower is a registered trademark.. when did this happen?

steve2

The Awake! has been a copyrighted title for decades. I remember reading an article in the Awake! that described how an Adventist group somewhere in South America had tried to publish their own magazine with a title similar to the Awake! The matter went to court and the Watchtower won. I tend to agree with those who have said that it's no big deal if an organisation copyrights its "intellectual" property. It makes legal sense.

78

Research on the validity of 1914

by Bluegrass Tom in

here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

steve2

The pleading baselessness of the 607 date exposes the Watchtower Society as a false religion. It's Biblical "authority" stands or falls on the 1914 doctrine. "Scholar" cannot adduce one authority or source outside of the Watchtower Society who supports 607. The Watchtower simply crumbles in the face of the historical record and attempts to prop up the doctrine have the effect of paper mache in a rain storm: A gooey mess crying out for independent corroboration. In a few years time, 1914 will simply fade from doctrinal view, and people given to "significant" dates on calendars will seize upon another "significant" date and the scholastic dishonesty and urgent messages will start all over again.