Posts by Bleep

83

CULT CULT CULT

by minimus in

i have read many opinions about jw's being a cult.a dictionary describes cult as a system of religious beliefs and ritual .. some have viewed even major religions as a cult, such as the roman catholic church.based upon webster almost anybody or anything that is viewed as ritualistic could be said to be cultic.when someone tries to negate jehovah's witnesses by using.

the "cult" word, i believe they are not seeing that many others could legitimately be regarded as a cult or at least "cultic".therefore the word loses alot of meaning.

some have said that the watchtower is a cult because of the control factor.

Bleep

expatbrit wrote, "So what does the WT society want since they dont get any riches out of publishing true worship?"

They want to do what Jesus said "feed my sheep".

83

CULT CULT CULT

by minimus in

i have read many opinions about jw's being a cult.a dictionary describes cult as a system of religious beliefs and ritual .. some have viewed even major religions as a cult, such as the roman catholic church.based upon webster almost anybody or anything that is viewed as ritualistic could be said to be cultic.when someone tries to negate jehovah's witnesses by using.

the "cult" word, i believe they are not seeing that many others could legitimately be regarded as a cult or at least "cultic".therefore the word loses alot of meaning.

some have said that the watchtower is a cult because of the control factor.

Bleep

This will detroy any thinking about me being in a cult.

Weathering the "Sect Scare" Storm

In recent years, there have been several horrendous cases of mass suicides, murders, and terrorist attacks involving esoteric sects. Understandably, many individuals, including sincere political leaders, have shown concern about protecting innocent people, particularly minors, from such dangerous sects. "The god of this system of things," doubtless being behind these heinous crimes, has thus created what some call a sect scare, and he is using this against Jehovah's people. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:12) Some have exploited this situation to arouse opposition to our work. In certain countries, they have mounted a campaign aimed ostensibly at protecting people from "dangerous sects" but erroneously naming Jehovah's Witnesses and thus accusing us by innuendo. This has made house-to-house witnessing difficult in some European countries and has caused some people who were studying the Bible with us to stop their study. In turn, this has had a negative effect on some of our brothers.

Far from discouraging us, however, opposition should strengthen our conviction that we are practicing true Christianity. (Matthew 5:11, 12) The early Christians were accused of being a seditious sect, and they were "spoken against" everywhere. (Acts 24:5; 28:22) But the apostle Peter reassured his fellow believers, writing: "Beloved ones, do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, as though a strange thing were befalling you. On the contrary, go on rejoicing forasmuch as you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory." (1 Peter 4:12, 13) Similarly, a member of the first- century governing body wrote: "Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith works out endurance. But let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything." (James 1:2-4) Just as gale-force winds test the seaworthiness of a vessel, storms of opposition will reveal any weaknesses in our ship of faith.

Source from Watchtower Library.

134

THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES

by You Know in

the dilemma facing apostate jehovahs witnesses, or apostate dubs, as i have dubbed them, (no pun intended) is the very fact of their seeming success.

one of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization.

in that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the governing body, the watchtower society's teachings, as well as individual jehovah's witnesses, then that somehow means that jehovah's witnesses have no connection with jehovah god.

Bleep

I will be showing a series of methods that Apostates use to discredit the Watchtower. There are questions at the end so you can quiz yourself.

Anchored by Hope, Impelled by Love

"There remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."-1 CORINTHIANS 13:13.

THE apostle Paul warns us that, like a ship, our faith can be wrecked. He speaks of "holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning their faith." (1 Timothy 1:19) In the first century C.E., seagoing vessels were built of wood. Their seaworthiness depended on the quality of the timber and on skillful shipbuilding.

2 What might be called the ship of our faith must remain afloat amid the turbulent seas of humanity. (Isaiah 57:20; Revelation 17:15) So it must be well built, and this depends on us. When the "seas" of the Jewish and Roman worlds were becoming particularly rough for the early Christians, Jude wrote: "Beloved ones, by building up yourselves on your most holy faith, and praying with holy spirit, keep yourselves in God's love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view." (Jude 20, 21) Since Jude also spoke of fighting for 'the faith delivered to the holy ones,' the expression "most holy faith" may refer to the whole range of Christian teachings, including the good news of salvation. (Jude 3) Christ is the foundation of that faith. Strong faith is needed if we are to cling to the true Christian faith.

Weathering the "Sect Scare" Storm

3 In recent years, there have been several horrendous cases of mass suicides, murders, and terrorist attacks involving esoteric sects. Understandably, many individuals, including sincere political leaders, have shown concern about protecting innocent people, particularly minors, from such dangerous sects. "The god of this system of things," doubtless being behind these heinous crimes, has thus created what some call a sect scare, and he is using this against Jehovah's people. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:12) Some have exploited this situation to arouse opposition to our work. In certain countries, they have mounted a campaign aimed ostensibly at protecting people from "dangerous sects" but erroneously naming Jehovah's Witnesses and thus accusing us by innuendo. This has made house-to-house witnessing difficult in some European countries and has caused some people who were studying the Bible with us to stop their study. In turn, this has had a negative effect on some of our brothers.

4 Far from discouraging us, however, opposition should strengthen our conviction that we are practicing true Christianity. (Matthew 5:11, 12) The early Christians were accused of being a seditious sect, and they were "spoken against" everywhere. (Acts 24:5; 28:22) But the apostle Peter reassured his fellow believers, writing: "Beloved ones, do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, as though a strange thing were befalling you. On the contrary, go on rejoicing forasmuch as you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory." (1 Peter 4:12, 13) Similarly, a member of the first-century governing body wrote: "Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith works out endurance. But let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything." (James 1:2-4) Just as gale-force winds test the seaworthiness of a vessel, storms of opposition will reveal any weaknesses in our ship of faith.

Tribulation Produces Endurance

5 Christians can be sure of their endurance and of the stability of their faith only after weathering storms of tribulation. Our endurance will "have its work complete" in stormy seas only if we are "complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything," including strong faith. Paul wrote: "In every way we recommend ourselves as God's ministers, by the endurance of much, by tribulations, by cases of need, by difficulties."-2 Corinthians 6:4.

6 The gale-force winds of tribulation that we may experience at times should be considered opportunities to prove that our ship of faith is sound and stable. To Christians in Rome, Paul wrote: "Let us exult while in tribulations, since we know that tribulation produces endurance; endurance, in turn, an approved condition; the approved condition, in turn, hope, and the hope does not lead to disappointment." (Romans 5:3-5) Steadfastness under trials brings us Jehovah's approval. This, in turn, strengthens our hope.

Why Some Suffer Shipwreck

7 When Paul warned of experiencing "shipwreck," he had in mind some who had "thrust aside" their good conscience and had lost their faith. (1 Timothy 1:19) Among them were Hymenaeus and Alexander who fell into apostasy, deviating from the truth and speaking abusively. (1 Timothy 1:20, footnote; 2 Timothy 2:17, 18) Today, apostates, who deviate from the truth, verbally beat "the faithful and discreet slave," in effect biting the hand that had been feeding them spiritually. Some resemble the "evil slave," implicitly saying, "My master is delaying." (Matthew 24:44-49; 2 Timothy 4:14, 15) They deny that the end of this wicked system of things is near and criticize the spiritually alert slave class for maintaining a sense of urgency among Jehovah's people. (Isaiah 1:3) Such apostates succeed in "subverting the faith of some," inducing spiritual shipwreck.-2 Timothy 2:18.

8 Other dedicated Christians have wrecked the ship of their faith by thrusting aside their conscience and indulging in this world's unbridled pleasure-seeking and its sexual immorality. (2 Peter 2:20-22) Still others scuttle their ship of faith because in their view the haven of the new system of things does not yet seem to be appearing on the horizon. Unable to make time calculations concerning the fulfillment of certain prophecies, and putting "Jehovah's day" off in their minds, they abandon true worship. (2 Peter 3:10-13; 1 Peter 1:9) They soon find themselves back in the murky, troubled waters of the present system of things. (Isaiah 17:12, 13; 57:20) Some who have stopped associating with the Christian congregation still believe that it practices the true religion. However, they evidently lack the patience and endurance required to wait for the new world that Jehovah God has promised. Life in Paradise has not come soon enough for them.

9 A few dedicated Christians in some parts of the world appear to have reefed the sails of their ship of faith. The ship is still afloat, but instead of forging ahead in full faith, they have adopted a cruising speed. Drawn by the hope of "Paradise soon," some were prepared to spare no efforts to attain it-zealous in the preaching work and regular in attendance at all meetings, assemblies, and conventions. Now thinking that the realization of their hopes is farther off than they anticipated, they have lowered the price they are willing to pay. This is evident in reduced preaching activity, irregularity at meetings, and willingness to miss parts of assembly or convention programs. Others are devoting more time to recreation and to obtaining material comforts. These facts lead us to consider what should be the driving force in our lives in line with our dedication to Jehovah. Should our zeal in his service be dependent on the hope of "Paradise soon"?

Hope Compared to an Anchor

10 Paul pointed out that Jehovah had made a promise of blessings to come through Abraham. Then the apostle explained: "God . . . stepped in with an oath, in order that, through two unchangeable things [his word and his oath] in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor for the soul, both sure and firm." (Hebrews 6:17-19; Genesis 22:16-18) The hope set before anointed Christians is that of immortal life in heaven. Today, the vast majority of Jehovah's servants have the splendid hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth. (Luke 23:43) Without such hope, one can have no faith.

11 An anchor is a powerful safety device, indispensable for holding a ship in place and preventing it from drifting. No mariner would venture out of port without an anchor. Since Paul had been shipwrecked several times, he knew from experience that the lives of seafarers often depended on their ship's anchors. (Acts 27:29, 39, 40; 2 Corinthians 11:25) In the first century, a ship had no engine to enable the captain to maneuver as he wished. Except for oar-driven warships, vessels depended primarily on the wind for movement. If his ship was in danger of being driven onto rocks, a captain's only recourse was to drop anchor and ride out the storm, trusting that the anchor would not lose its grip on the seabed. Paul therefore compared a Christian's hope to "an anchor for the soul, both sure and firm." (Hebrews 6:19) When we are assailed by storms of opposition or experience other trials, our wonderful hope is like an anchor that stabilizes us as living souls, so that our ship of faith does not drift onto the dangerous shoals of doubt or the disastrous rocks of apostasy.-Hebrews 2:1; Jude 8-13.

12 Paul warned Hebrew Christians: "Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God." (Hebrews 3:12) In the Greek text, "drawing away" literally means "to stand off," that is, to apostatize. But we can avoid such utter shipwreck. Faith and hope will enable us to stick to Jehovah even during the worst storms of testing. (Deuteronomy 4:4; 30:19, 20) Our faith will not be like a ship tossed about by winds of apostate teaching. (Ephesians 4:13, 14) And with hope as our anchor, we will be able to weather the storms of life as Jehovah's servants.

Impelled by Love and Holy Spirit

13 A Christian will not progress toward the new system if his only motive for serving Jehovah is the hope of living forever on a paradise earth. While keeping his anchor of hope as a stabilizing factor in his life, he needs to add to it and to his faith the impelling force of love. Paul underscored this fact when he wrote: "There remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."-1 Corinthians 13:13.

14 Our motivating force in rendering sacred service should be heartfelt love for Jehovah, in response to his immeasurable love for us. The apostle John wrote: "He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him. As for us, we love, because he first loved us." (1 John 4:8, 9, 19) Out of gratitude to Jehovah, our primary concern should be, not to gain personal salvation, but to witness the sanctification of his holy name and the vindication of his righteous sovereignty.

15 Jehovah wants us to serve him because we love him, not just Paradise. The Bible encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures states: "Jehovah glories in the fact that his sovereignty and the support of it by his creatures is based primarily on love. He desires only those who love his sovereignty because of his fine qualities and because it is righteous, who prefer his sovereignty to any other. (1Co 2:9) They choose to serve under his sovereignty rather than try to be independent-this because of their knowledge of him and of his love, justice, and wisdom, which they realize far surpasses their own. (Ps 84:10, 11)"-Volume 2, page 275.

16 As Christians, we also show love for Jesus in response to his love for us. Paul reasoned: "The love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have judged, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died; and he died for all that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up." (2 Corinthians 5:14, 15) Christ is the very foundation upon which our spiritual lives, our faith, and our hope are built. Our love for Christ Jesus bolsters our hope and stabilizes our faith, especially in times of stormy testing.-1 Corinthians 3:11; Colossians 1:23; 2:6, 7.

17 While our love for God and for his Son is the main impelling force in our lives as Christians, Jehovah provides something else that impels us, energizes us, and gives us strength to go forward in his service. It is his active force, or holy spirit. The Hebrew and Greek words rendered "spirit" basically refer to the dynamic movement of the air, such as wind. Sailing ships like those Paul boarded relied on the invisible force of the wind to get to their destination. Similarly, we need love and the action of God's invisible active force if our ship of faith is to move us onward in Jehovah's service.-Acts 1:8; Ephesians 3:16.

Onward to Our Destination!

18 Our faith and love may be severely tested before we reach the new system of things. But Jehovah has provided us with an anchor "both sure and firm"-our wonderful hope. (Hebrews 6:19; Romans 15:4, 13) When we are battered by opposition or other trials, we can endure if we are securely anchored by means of our hope. After one storm subsides but before another one breaks out, let us be determined to fortify our hope and strengthen our faith.

19 Before mentioning the "anchor for the soul," Paul said: "We desire each one of you to show the same industriousness [to "speed up," footnote] so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end, in order that you may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11, 12) Impelled by love for Jehovah and for his Son and empowered by holy spirit, let us keep the ship of our faith on course until we reach the haven of God's promised new world.

[Footnote]

Published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

By Way of Review

With regard to our faith, what warning did Paul give us?

How have some experienced spiritual shipwreck, and how are others slowing down?

What godly quality needs to be coupled with our faith?

What will enable us to reach the haven of God's promised new world?

[Study Questions]

1. What warning does the apostle Paul give us?

2. Why must the ship of our faith be well built, and what does this require of us?

3. How are some using the "sect scare"?

4. Why should opposition not discourage us?

5. How can we be sure that our faith is stable under tribulation?

6. Why should we "exult while in tribulations," and how does this strengthen our hope?

7. (a) As Paul's words show, how had some experienced spiritual shipwreck? (b) How have some today deviated from the truth?

8. What has caused some to wreck or to scuttle the ship of their faith?

9. What are a few dedicated Christians doing, and what should these facts lead us to consider?

10, 11. To what did Paul liken our hope, and why was this comparison appropriate?

12. How can we avoid drawing away from Jehovah?

13, 14. (a) Why is the anchor of our hope not sufficient in itself? (b) What should be the motivating force in rendering sacred service to Jehovah, and why?

15. How is our love for Jehovah related to the question of his sovereignty?

16. How is love for Jesus an impelling force in our lives?

17. What dynamic force does Jehovah provide us, and how is its importance shown at Acts 1:8 and Ephesians 3:16?

18. What will enable us to endure any future tests of our faith?

19. How can we keep the ship of our faith on course and reach the haven of God's new world?

30

A question for Bleep

by JT in

when bleep was asked has he read rays' book he responded.

bleep says:.

"i have not read the publication since i have many other publications that are fruitfull and benificial for true christians".

Bleep

The Watchtower Library Wrote, "These locusts picture the anointed remnant of Christians who, now in the Lord's day, go forth to devastate Christendom's pastures by completely exposing false religion and proclaiming Jehovah's vengeance upon it."

I have been waiting for someone to do some homework. I am not of the anointed but I still can do my part with the preaching.

hillary_step wrote laughing, "Are you serious Bleep?.....lol"

Sure am. There are a few in need that want to know about Jehovah's Witnesses when they look it up. That's how I got here. I did not look up Apostates.com I hope you know.

hillary_step wrote, "I am not sure YK would want to affiliate himself with an obviously clueless youth who has so far been unable to represent his 'faith' with any sort of solidity or reason."

Why don't you ask him yourself instead of wondering about it? I am getting much wiser than the priests and so are our twelve year olds at the Kingdom Hall.

40

Man, after all, creates gods in his own image.

by Bleep in

this is why i like to help those come to an accurate knowledge in the first place.

those that agree that there has been so many god's that have been worshiped can post here.

satan is behind it all of course.

Bleep

Crazy151drinker Wrote, "So the WT believes in Astrologers!! HOW PAGAN and SATANIC!!!!"

The Watchtower says, "If astrologers and scientists cannot foresee with any certainty what is going to happen, does that mean that it is impossible to get reliable information about the future?"

No where does it support the astrologers. Where did you get that from? Maybe it is your mind that is messed up????

We know that they cannot foresee with any certainty. Many people pay good money for this and get nothing in return.

Are you willing to back up that statement of NO accurate knowledge, I am waiting.

49

Is There a HELL ??

by 67mustang in

according to revelation 20:10 the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever along with the "false prophet".

i asked several jw's about this and the reply was "we don't take it like that" or "it doesn't literally mean that".

wether or not there is a hell it sure seams they are missing or ignoring something.

Bleep

True that is what the churches are teaching. There are those who know better at the Kingdom Hall. They know this is not the time for judgement but a time for learning about Jehovah's Kingdom. Without this basic knowledge many do not have much of a chance when it comes time to be judged. Mankind will have a chance to be perfect for a day (1000 years) and then be judged when Satan is let loose.

True Christians carry on what Jesus did regarding the Lords prayer and other teachings from the great teacher. We even have a book "The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived".

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

Bleep

Let us go onward with the great features of this book if there are any.

30

A question for Bleep

by JT in

when bleep was asked has he read rays' book he responded.

bleep says:.

"i have not read the publication since i have many other publications that are fruitfull and benificial for true christians".

Bleep

OUTLAW writes, "Your here to help no one ,your a self indulgent #@!%-up.

Could you provide evidence to support your claim?

30

A question for Bleep

by JT in

when bleep was asked has he read rays' book he responded.

bleep says:.

"i have not read the publication since i have many other publications that are fruitfull and benificial for true christians".

Bleep

I am not here to argue with the Devil himself.

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

Bleep

OUTLAW wrote, "I did not say the Ray Franz Crisis of Concience book would never have the golden rule in it.Do not twist my posts to suit your own needs,you manipulative little !@#$%!#. CC is about WBTS corruption and their inability to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves.You wouldn`t know that because your not allowed to read it.Your posts are bull@!%# because you honestly don`t know anything about the subject your commenting on..."

I am aware how my brothers and sisters treat me and so are all Witnesses. They dont need a book from the world to help them decide if its the truth or not. I do know a tidbit of stuff, why else would you be that mad? Take it easy. Life was made to be easy.