There's a famous matrix that squares the complex non-commutative sum (do know + don't know), so that the results are:
1) you do know that you do know (like basic essential skills, how to drive a car)
2) you do know that you don't know (like awareness of gaps in knowledge, which takes a while to set in)
3) you don't know that you do know (like instincts)
4) you don't know that you don't know (like the truly unknown that evades our ability to even define as a gap in knowledge)
Take a circle with radius named "time": as the radius (and time) increases, the circumference increases at a greater rate (2 pi). The circumference or perimeter is essentially the interface between the area of things that are known (you know that you know) and the external area of things that are unknown (you don't know that you don't know). From inside, what can be perceived of that vast area of unknown is just the perimeter itself, a line, and that amount is what you know that you don't know. This principle lies behind the adage that the more you know the more you don't know - it's a proportion gained by or appreciated through experience.
This earthquake business, about which several denominations including JWs make much ado, is a case of that circumference increasing and causing new knowledge to fall into the area of known things. The mistake they make is to act as if quantitative increase in data constitutes a difference in behavior of a system. It doesn't - just it means you have more data. Population growth and geological demographics are the main factors in any increase in mortality, but JWs treat them as trivial factors.
I really doubt a JW will allow themselves to be pinned down at the door about the behavior of a system. They try to tell themselves that they are not Biblically literalist fundamentalist evangelicals, but they retain the animistic suspicion that certain phenomena have a ghost in the machine, and the ghost is angry.
Posts by rmt1
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15Earthquakes increase in number? Prove it.
by Not Feeling It inso i saw a jw last days 1914-2009 alert email today.
this one was trumpeting the following link and associating it with wts last days prophesy around "earthquakes in one place after another".
heads up if you get this fear mail.
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rmt1
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Earthquakes increase in number? Prove it.
by Not Feeling It inso i saw a jw last days 1914-2009 alert email today.
this one was trumpeting the following link and associating it with wts last days prophesy around "earthquakes in one place after another".
heads up if you get this fear mail.
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rmt1
You must have the wrong translation. In mine, Jesus clearly and unmistakeably says that "there shall be car crashes in one place after another."
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I'm in need of some apostatherapy.....
by Quirky1 ini almost feel like going back to the kingdumb hall and need some support to help thru my withdrawal symptoms.......any ideas?
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rmt1
I have to think you're kidding, but then you may not have been exposed to more than Kingdom Melodies. If you're serious, invest in some Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi, and Tchaikovsky. Holst, John Williams, Philip Glass.
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JW NWT "Freeness of speech" vs First Amd "Freedom of speech"
by rmt1 inwhat is the difference?
if i recall, the jw version of freeness of speech has to do with having a clear conscience to preach, ergo the inwardly concientious right to expression of belief, whereas constitutional freedom of speech is the outwardly political right to expression of belief.. so is there any version of freedom of speech in the jw doctrinal pantheon?
i say this because i am trying to formulate my thoughts with regards to a potential refusal by my dying father to see me on his deathbed.
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rmt1
What is the difference? If I recall, the JW version of Freeness of speech has to do with having a clear conscience to preach, ergo the inwardly concientious right to expression of belief, whereas Constitutional Freedom of speech is the outwardly political right to expression of belief.
So is there any version of freedom of speech in the JW doctrinal pantheon? I say this because I am trying to formulate my thoughts with regards to a potential refusal by my dying father to see me on his deathbed. As far as I can reduce it to fewest simplest terms, JWs ratify the expression of the findings of private inquiry when those findings are parallel to JW doctrine, and damnify the expression when those findings are contradictory. Now, a DF'd person might go to other churches in a personal inquiry of spiritual alternatives, and they will not be considered apostate. If someone does inquiries regarding the veracity of JW doctrine by means of non-apostate reading materials, they are not automatically considered apostate. If someone reads apostate literature once or twice, they are not automatically considered apostate. But if someone expresses their contradictory findings, whether those findings came from an original apostate source or from the individual's OWN research, then that person is automatically considered apostate.
While the JWs claim as their own right the right to concientious Freeness of speech based upon personal inquiry, they refuse to accept, ratify, recognize or otherwise condone the right to contientious expression of findings of private inquiry when, when and however those findings are contraindicative of JW doctrine.
Did I miss anything? Is it that simple or is there some fine detail or nuance that can ameliorate this hypocritical double standard?
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Are JWN posters considered apostate?
by rmt1 inmy jw elder father is going die of liver cancer, and his prognosis is 3 to 12 months.. i am disassociated and have been out of contact with my family for four years, up until two days ago.
i do not consider myself apostate, because i believe that is constituted by actively trying to undermine a jw's faith.
but i could be way off.. i am hoping to remain in contact with my father during his cancer experience but i need to have some idea of what status or standing they assign to anyone who posts or reads a 'life-after-jw' board such as this one.. in their hierarchy of damnation, does it constitute a biblical-scale apostacy for someone to post to this kind of board?
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rmt1
I'm not certain it is none of their business. The more I think about it, I think my own attitude towards this might be transformed by certain decisions they or he might make. The reason I keep my initials as my username echoes the sentiment that I thought life was not worth living, even with constant familial connection, under that regime of lies.
Now I would theorize that they acknowledge that there remains a familial responsibility even after a spiritual relationship has ended, and even if that family member has moved away. It is a residual responsibility, but it is as physicists say "non-vanishing" and never reaches Zero. But if a spiritual relationship that was positive, and then became neutral, then later turns negative, such as in the case of apostacy, then it seems possible to me that they could in good conscience cancel or waive the familial responsibility that is otherwise in force for what I shall hamfistedly mangle as "DF'd or DA'd family members in good standing".
Worst case scenario: Does anyone have experience or knowledge of a case where a dying JW forbid a family member that was allegedly apostate from seeing them and paying last respects before they died? I don't know where their spiritual binding energy is greater than their familial binding energy. It seems possible that in a case where there is some shadow of a doubt that a family member is """""apostate""""", by their particular sequence of qualifications, they might in fact decide that their spiritual needs and their status in the eyes of the congregation will be better if they decline the visit or presense of such """"apostate"""".
Something is telling me that if they / he insists upon such a stance, then that will be their encouragement to me to wash my hands of the familial responsibility. I am not sure that it is worth cheating, by hiding the fact that I speak my mind, and which they perforce call """"apostate"""", in order to gain access and pay respects to the family member about to die. I do not intend or hope to evade a familial duty by them somehow learning that I post on a board like this. But if they were to discover such a fact, and I won't hide it, then I don't think that is the same as me shooting myself in the foot - it is more them having the chance to demonstrate which of the two of us actually fulfills the verses "love of the greater number will cool off" and "having no natural affection".
Someone with some life experience please advise me where I am losing the high ground. If they were to call me on this particular board, or """"apostacy"""" in general, where would I gain the high ground by dissembling or lying by omission? To my mind, I would strengthen my father's faith if he had the unfortunate satisfaction of sticking to his guns in refusing to see his apostate son.
Any observations, experiences, perspectives, please.
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Are JWN posters considered apostate?
by rmt1 inmy jw elder father is going die of liver cancer, and his prognosis is 3 to 12 months.. i am disassociated and have been out of contact with my family for four years, up until two days ago.
i do not consider myself apostate, because i believe that is constituted by actively trying to undermine a jw's faith.
but i could be way off.. i am hoping to remain in contact with my father during his cancer experience but i need to have some idea of what status or standing they assign to anyone who posts or reads a 'life-after-jw' board such as this one.. in their hierarchy of damnation, does it constitute a biblical-scale apostacy for someone to post to this kind of board?
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rmt1
My JW elder father is going die of liver cancer, and his prognosis is 3 to 12 months.
I am disassociated and have been out of contact with my family for four years, up until two days ago. I do not consider myself apostate, because I believe that is constituted by actively trying to undermine a JW's faith. But I could be way off.
I am hoping to remain in contact with my father during his cancer experience but I need to have some idea of what status or standing they assign to anyone who posts or reads a 'life-after-JW' board such as this one.
In their hierarchy of damnation, does it constitute a Biblical-scale apostacy for someone to post to this kind of board? How about to post severely anti-JW messages (which are to the choir)?
And what standing do apostate family members have with regard to terminal illnesses and death bed visitation?
Any serious insights and personal experiences appreciated. Please hold your sympathy.
Thank you.
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rmt1
Double-thinkers, they mean. They simultaneously maintain a Heisenberg opposition of meanings for the word 'think'. When a worldly person thinks and disagrees with the JWs, he has been misled by human wisdom. When a JW thinks and disagrees with the JWs, he has had a crisis of conscience or faith or doctrine that must be brought under control. When a JW thinks, disagrees, but then convinces themselves that they can look the other way and swap to the opposite meaning, then the Truth is for them. The Truth is not for thinkers (of monopolar definition) but is perfect for doubleplusgoodthinkers (of dipolar definition).
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WSJ - Front Page - Predict End of USA by 2010 - Garbage...
by Confucious ini was very surprised that the wall street journal would publish this crap worthy of infowars.com.
and i was even more surprised they put it on the front page.. but it's in today's wsj - dec. 29 edition.. it's a story about a russian professor that is predicting the end of the usa by the year 2010.. he points to the fact that states will withhold support to the federal government.. they went so far as to make little diagrams on what states would go to canada and what to russia.. this one is easy though - say what you want to say - but 2010 is only a year away - and nothing is going to happen to the usa.. i'm not a flag waving redneck either - but the infrastructure of the us is too strong - too advanced.. con.
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rmt1
Right now it's important for Americans to hear such nonsense because it is a perfect opportunity to be hit with the reality already mentioned, that our infrastructure, manufacture, resource and education capabilities are too badass to sink just yet. IOW, naive pronouncements by hopeful foreign statesmen serve as a very useful inoculation against precipitous behaviors like everyone cashing out of the banks.
If one proportionally transforms dates of benchmarks in ancient Rome and the U.S. (royal interval, republic interval, imperial interval), we still have a good forty years left of the U.S. being a nominally representative Republic. After that, rich and poor will have centrifuged and separated out sufficiently that a demagogue populist, probably with military background, will be very appealing to an American people who have seen their standard of living, and probably livelihoods, scuttled vis a vis emergent powers. The masses sometimes and cyclically hope that a single strong arm can clean up their house and paint the fence toothy. -
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King of the South?
by Satanus inhas anyone heard anything about him?
the wt has not talked about the southern king for a few decades.
the present american financial crisis is a golden opportunity for the wt to pull this card from the bottom of the deck.
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rmt1
My memory may be faulty but I recall something to the effect that the North would kick the South's ass and take names, and then Gog of Magog is drawn with a fishhook to attack god's people or something. The memory is sharp because it had the uncomfortable implication at the time that Russia would somehow militarily beat the U.S. in some indeterminate arena. If I am recalling correctly, a JW right now could look at the limitations of American imperial / unilateral strategies as compared to the rise of China.
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Father dying - request for suggestions how to best use time
by rmt1 ini am a staunch atheist, so i don't need any advice directed at myself in terms of what i should pray about, what i should believe in, ect.. .
what i do need advice about is how or to what degree i need to bear in mind the jw mindset and paradise earth hope.
now, from my perspective, he has wasted his life waiting for armageddon, and now he gets to see exactly how much of jah's paradise is ever coming to earth - zilch.
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rmt1
I am a staunch atheist, so I don't need any advice directed at myself in terms of what I should pray about, what I should believe in, ect.
What I do need advice about is how or to what degree I need to bear in mind the JW mindset and Paradise Earth hope. Now, from my perspective, he has wasted his life waiting for Armageddon, and now he gets to see exactly how much of Jah's Paradise is ever coming to Earth - zilch. But from his perspective, he will be summoning all his mental powers while on his deathbed to strongly visualize what it will be like to wake up in the New System and be received by all his sons and grandchildren while surrounded by God's beautiful nature and grizzly bears acting like teddy bears.
I really want the high road, and I really want to play this out correctly. I hope that my motivations are not to model for my entrapped familial brothers how it is to be an emotionally mature and psychologically successful worldly person. That would be vain. I believe that taking the highroad means not allowing any of my religious politics, or our differences of religion, enter into the equation. This does not mean caving in and allowing him to think that I am somehow penitent. This doesn't mean flinching and somehow allowing that I believe there is anywhere he is going to. This does not mean slipping up and allowing him to believe that there is anything correct about his religion.
What it does mean, I hope, is that I can address him as the evolved, homo sapien male that grew up in the post-war years, married into a peculiar religion, fathered some offspring during disco and Reagan, and always busted his blue collar ass. It is the biological father that I want to address, for nothing of value to anyone would result from me addressing the religious, politically-JW male that sired me.
SO. Whoever can shed some experience or reasonable insights - can you separate your recommendations and focus on what the biological father needs to hear - what he did right as a parent, what he must be thanked for, where the chip-off-old-block aspect has succeeded, etc.
I have no interest in sympathy so please keep it. I am solely interested in how to approach this from the perspective of how to make his homo sapien journey as valuable to him as I am able to give. I have no gifts to bring ba rumpa bumpup; all I have is this atheistic drum. But can I say something that is utterly evacuated of JW spin that would have closing, final value? I hope for responses that are serious as cancer.
My thanks in advance.