Of course, I'm speaking only about the Bethelites in the US...different tax laws in different countries. In order to avoid paying personal income tax on the monetary value of their room and board and allowance, they had to sign a vow of poverty and I can remember being told this as long ago as 1981. There are several ex-Bethelites from various eras posting here, I wonder what they remember.
Posts by blondie
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18Do bethelites get social security?
by sleepy ini was just wondering you know whether in bethel workers get credited with whats called in britian national insurance.. in britian you carnt miss six years of payment and expect a full goverment pension which isn't much anyway.also you cant claim full income support , sickness benifit or job seekers allowence if you have missed or underpaid you ni.. this came to mind as my wife worked for a company that didn't pay contributions for her .. when latter on she lost her job the goverment wouldn't pay her any job seekers allowance as no ni contributions were credited for that year.. so does bethel pay ni contributions for bethelites and circuit overseers and the like.
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Do bethelites get social security?
by sleepy ini was just wondering you know whether in bethel workers get credited with whats called in britian national insurance.. in britian you carnt miss six years of payment and expect a full goverment pension which isn't much anyway.also you cant claim full income support , sickness benifit or job seekers allowence if you have missed or underpaid you ni.. this came to mind as my wife worked for a company that didn't pay contributions for her .. when latter on she lost her job the goverment wouldn't pay her any job seekers allowance as no ni contributions were credited for that year.. so does bethel pay ni contributions for bethelites and circuit overseers and the like.
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blondie
Bethelites were taking a vow of poverty as long as 20 years ago that I know of. I don't think it is a recent thing. At least in the US.
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Question for you JW's or non JW's about 1935?
by Brutus inhow do you prove from the bible that 1935 was the year that the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled?
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blondie
Thanks, Joel..and probably at the rate it had been increasing 144,000 would soon be overtaken...the so-called nonanointed (no great crowd yet) those who didn't feel they had the call had to be specifically invited to the convention in 1935. I think it wasn't until 1938 until the great crowd was invited to the memorial. And it was some time before a nonanointed brother could be appointed an elder. My sources say there were a few hurt feelings among the anointed ones when the great crowd started streaming in and taking over things...
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Question for you JW's or non JW's about 1935?
by Brutus inhow do you prove from the bible that 1935 was the year that the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled?
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blondie
It would be interesting to see the stats from 1922 to 1935 of the number of active witnesses to see if the number 144,000 was soon to be overtaken and so an explanation had to be given (there had to be a few from the first century after all).
Actually, Russell said the general call for the anointed ended in 1881 and only replacements were being found after that.
I wonder when Rutherford came in (1882?)...he must have been a replacement.
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Blood = Organ Transplant Awake! '99
by waiting inthis was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
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blondie
Here's a longer history of quotes. I guess JWs are not reading their magazines are just skim over the difficult parts.
*** g99 8/22 31 Are Blood Transfusions Really Necessary? ***
LAST November the above question was raised in a newspaper article written by Dr. Ciril Godec, chairman of urology at Long Island College Hospital, in Brooklyn, New York. He wrote: “Today blood would probably not be approved as a medication, since it would not fulfill safety criteria of the Food and Drug Administration. Blood is an organ of the body, and blood transfusion is nothing less than an organ transplant.”*** g90 10/22 9 Gift of Life or Kiss of Death? ***
As cardiovascular surgeon Denton Cooley notes: “A blood transfusion is an organ transplant. . . . I think that there are certain incompatibilities in almost all blood transfusions.”*** g74 3/22 21 My Life as a Surgeon ***
Blood transfusion is now recognized as a dangerous procedure—as hazardous as any other organ transplant.*** g73 6/8 15 Blood Transfusions-a Biological "Sin" ***
In an interview with a member of the Awake! staff, Dr. Bailey made the following interesting observations:
“Blood is a liquid organ. When it is blood from another person, its administration involves the many problems of biological rejection, which have in the long run defeated the transplanting of the heart and other organs.
“Since the blood cells are normally destroyed in sixty days and the liquid content ‘turnover’ is even more rapid, a blood transfusion is a temporary or a transient transplant of a liquid organ. Indeed, this is undoubtedly the reason for its general acceptance at a time when organ transplantation is considered experimental.*** g72 7/8 28 "Keep Abstaining from . . . Blood" ***
Noting other benefits from using dextran rather than blood, these authorities went on to say: “Certain serious diseases may be transmitted via blood. There have been so many such cases recently that one at least should not take unnecessary risks. Moreover, a blood transfusion is to be regarded as any other transplantation, for example, of kidney or other tissue. ‘Foreign’ blood also alarms the body’s antibodies, although the consequences may not be as obvious as when a kidney is rejected.”—Dagbladet, April 22, 1971.*** g72 7/8 28 "Keep Abstaining from . . . Blood" ***
Yes, blood is a tissue, just as the heart and the kidneys are tissue. Because it is a “liquid tissue” this fact is not generally appreciated. Immunological forces, placed in the body by the Creator to protect it, oppose any foreign tissue and raise up antibodies to fight against it. That is why the popularity of heart transplants was so short-lived.When transplants were forbidden)
*** w67 12/1 720 By Man's Way or by God's Way-Which? ***
5 In a further argument for transfusion, it is claimed that what is transfused is merely a vehicle to convey food directly to the human body, and that the body does not feed on the vehicle itself. We therefore ask the question: After the transfused vehicular blood has released its oxygen and food elements to the body tissues of the patient, is this vehicular blood extracted from the patient’s body and transfused back into the body of the blood donor? This would be quite embarrassing and impossible, especially where the blood donor or donors are not known or if the blood has been taken from a newly dead cadaver. So the transfused vehicular material is left in the patient’s body. What then? Well, in the course of the years during which the human body renews itself into a new body, this vehicular blood is used or consumed by the patient’s body, the same as any other transplant of an organ (This is no longer considered correct…cells are not absorbed…thus the need for rejection preventitive medication). In what way, then, does this outworking of things differ essentially from feeding on the transfused blood? The results are the same: the patient’s body does sustain itself by transfused stuff. -
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Mustang-Rebaptism
by Free2Bme in*** w62 6/1 330-3 why be baptized?
.. rebaptism necessary?.
11 due to certain circumstances at the time when they got baptized or due to subsequent developments, some have doubts about the validity of their past dedication and baptism, and they wonder if they should be rebaptized.
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blondie
*** w73 6/1 341 (par 25) Keeping God's Congregation Clean in the Time of His Judgment ***
*** w70 5/15 308 (par 18) Your Conscience Toward Jehovah ***
SOME REBAPTIZED*** w64 2/15 125-6 Did You Make an Acceptable Dedication to God? ***
*** w62 6/1 332-3 (par 11-15) Why Be Baptized? ***
REBAPTISM NECESSARY?*** w60 3/1 159-60 Questions from Readers ***
What should a congregation committee do in the case of one who has committed acts deserving being put on probation or disfellowshiped and who now claims that in the light of what The Watchtower, August 1, 1958, had to say about valid and invalid baptisms, his baptism was not a valid one?*** w56 12/15 762-3 Questions from Readers ***
Because of information presented in the July 1, 1956, Watchtower on baptism, a number of persons have asked about the advisability of being baptized again. They say that their understanding of the matter is better now than when they were immersed. Also, some were told years ago that their immersion in water by one of Christendom’s religious systems was sufficient to symbolize their dedication if they understood at the time that they were dedicating themselves to do Jehovah’s will, but now this article (page 406, paragraph 14) says that baptisms in Christendom’s religious systems today are not valid and that these individuals should be baptized again by Jehovah’s theocratic organization. They ask if they should now be baptized again, and if so, what date for their time of dedication should be shown on their Publisher’s Record card? Should it be this latest baptism date, even though the person has been in the truth and actively witnessing for ten or twenty years or more?*** w52 3/1 159 Questions from Readers ***
If one has already been baptized, does he need to repeat the baptism after he gets a knowledge of the truth?—R. G., Canada. -
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Literature Price List at your Hall?
by Free2Bme inmy mum was telling me today that her congregation has a list of guide prices for the literature so that brothers have an idea what they should be contributing.
she has been told it was put up in response to request.. i am curious to find out if this is general practice or what?.
free
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blondie
Never seen in my area in the US or those I have visited. Donation box is around the corner too out of sight from the literature/magazine area. No mention made of donations by servants.
Could it be in some congregations the "voluntary" donations are not keeping pace with the magazines and literature obtained? Just an idea.
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HELP HELP NEED INFO
by JT into any jw lurker or reg poster who lives in the cleveland, oh and detroit, mi area.
i need a confirmation on something that came to my attention this evening.
it was announced in the cleveland area that the jw will be bused out to detroit, mi following the oct 5 or 6th annual meeting in jersey city for some type of special program.. of course all the jw think that the society is going to annoucne something major , but we all know that they will be told the 3 keys to success.
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blondie
There's always reruns, notices in the TV guide and millions of VCRs to be running while they are away....curiosity about the "forbidden" is a cardinal trait of most witnesses if they think no one will know...case in point, online pornography.
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what job could you have had?
by sleepy inhi i've just come home from cleaning windows.what an absolutely soul destroying job.. when i think of the things i could have done.. i remmember how my teachers in school used to tell me i would surely go to university and get a good job.i remmember the shock on one teachers face a few years after i left school when i told her i was a window cleaner.. i was also intrested in art and quite good at it.my grandfather who wasn't a witness offered to help me and my brother get good jobs in the art world.. we turned him down.. arrmegeddon was so soon.. anyone else like me ?.
what do you do and what could you have done?
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blondie
As Malcolm Forbes said, "It's only too late when you are dead."
"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
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Giovanni DeCecca - GB Member BIOGRAPHY
by Utopian Reformist incan anyone direct me to material concerning the life/biography (if any exists) about giovanni dececca?
her served during the russell/rutherford/knorr days.. anything you have to offer would be greatly appreciated!
thank you in advance to everyone.
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blondie
FYI Long....
*** w81 6/1 27 Gilead School Continues to Pile Up a 'Heap of Witness' ***
J. Redford urged the students to keep moving, to forget the things behind and keep stretching forward to the things ahead. (Phil. 3:13-16) He recalled the words spoken to him 30 years ago by the faithful brother Giovanni DeCecca (now deceased) whom he had commended for having done so much in Jehovah’s service. DeCecca, who by then had served more than 40 years at the headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, looked at Brother Redford sternly and, in his broken English, said: “Brother, it ain’t what ya done done. It’s what ya gonna do that counts!”*** w66 1/15 64 Announcements ***
Announcements
“YOU WILL RECEIVE THE UNFADABLE CROWN”
Those who read the October 1, 1960, issue of this magazine will recall the life story there published of Giovanni DeCecca. Brother DeCecca died on the morning of November 26, 1965, at the age of 85. Before immigrating to the United States in the year 1900, he had been a shepherd boy in Italy from the age of five. In 1906 he dedicated his life to Jehovah God and shortly thereafter began spending his full time in feeding sheeplike persons with Bible truths, particularly in Italian-speaking areas. He was called to the Watch Tower Society’s Brooklyn headquarters in 1909, where he continued to serve until his death. In 1918, he was among a group of eight principal members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society who were unjustly sentenced to imprisonment in the United States penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia. Along with the others, he was exonerated and released the following year. Thus for nearly sixty years Brother DeCecca faithfully served as a true shepherd of God’s sheep, as one of the anointed remnant of Christ’s followers. He trusted in the Scriptural promise that “when the chief shepherd has been made manifest, you will receive the unfadable crown of glory.” (1 Pet. 5:4) We rejoice with him in the fulfillment of this promise.*** w60 10/1 601-5 Pursuing My Purpose in Life ***
Pursuing My Purpose in Life
As told by Giovanni DeCecca
CALITRI, Italy, was my birthplace, in December, 1879. My devout parents had me baptized and later confirmed as a Roman Catholic. Little did we expect that today, at the age of eighty, I would fondly look back at fifty-four years as one of Jehovah’s witnesses.
After my confirmation, I used to wonder and finally inquired of our priest: “What must I do as a Christian to please God?” He replied: “Be a good man, attend mass regularly, go to confession, repeat the rosary, contribute all you can to the church and do what I tell you.” His answer did not satisfy me. It seemed selfish and wrong to be interested just in myself. Why not try to help others and make the world better?
About this time my father brought home a Bible and began to read it to us. I had never seen one before and wondered if it would help me be a good Christian. As father read to us from day to day, I became deeply interested and longed to read the Bible myself. Having been a shepherd boy from the age of five and without schooling, I could not read. When father taught me how, I spent many happy hours reading this good Book. While many things were not clear, I realized that what the priests were telling me did not agree with God’s Word. Trying to talk to my priest about the Bible was very disappointing. He told me it was not my business to understand and teach the Bible; that was his business! He would tell me all I would need to know to be a real Christian. Then he told me to come to confession. I went, but there was nothing to confess. Very displeased, my priest spoke terrible things about purgatory and eternal torment and other matters not suitable for the ears of a boy in his teens. I was very much disgusted. When told to put something in the collection box to pay for the services of the priest, I contributed two cents, and later regretted that.
As we continued reading the Bible, father decided that we would not go to mass any more. His decision brought great opposition from our relatives and former friends. The priests told them not to have anything to do with us because we would lead them astray. We joined the local Baptist church, where we learned that purgatory was not mentioned in the Bible, nor did it say anything about going to mass or praying to the “saints.” The minister told us that we should pray to God and confess our sins to Him. I was glad to learn these things, but the doctrine of eternal torment bothered me. Our minister could not give a satisfactory Scriptural answer. This was a great disappointment to me, because the thought of suffering forever in a place of torment distressed me very much. I continued to read the Bible, hoping to find someone who could answer my questions.
In 1900, when I was twenty-one, we moved to the United States, settling in Connecticut. I secured work to help support the family and immediately began to study English, with the aid of an Italian-English dictionary. Learning to speak and read English, I felt at home in America. Here I continued to read the Bible, still hoping someone would help me understand it.
In 1904 my hope was realized when a Watch Tower colporteur visited my place of work offering Bible-study helps. From her I obtained the first three volumes of Studies in the Scriptures. The first volume, called “The Divine Plan of the Ages,” opened up the glorious message of the Bible to me in a remarkable way. I was so happy I wanted to tell everyone that I had found the truth. How wonderful it was! My worries about eternal torment were over, for God’s inspired Book plainly says the “wages of sin is death,” not torment. I learned that God’s kingdom, for which Jesus taught us to pray, will bring eternal life and perfect happiness to all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and serve him faithfully. What a message to bring to the people!
My first efforts to circulate these wonderful books were not very successful, because I did not know how to go about it. When I tried to interest my Baptist minister by telling him that hell is not a place of eternal torment, he asked: “If hell is taken out of the Bible, what do we have left?” I replied: “We have Christ our Savior, who redeemed us from the curse of death, and his thousand-year reign that will bring peace, happiness and everlasting life to those who obey him.” That ended the discussion.
At Asbury Park, New Jersey, during the 1906 convention of Bible Students, I met several hundred dedicated Christians well versed in the Scriptures. I shall never forget how these friendly people talked about the Bible all the time and were ready and able to answer my questions. If I could always be with this kind of people, how happy I would be! There I met Brother Charles Russell, president of the Watch Tower Society. I asked him if I could work at the Society’s headquarters. After hearing of my experiences in Italy and how I learned the truth in America, he advised me to take up colporteuring first and perhaps a place could be found for me later at headquarters. I was baptized that year, but did not feel ready for colporteur service. Then a brother going into that work asked me to join him. I did, and soon learned how to place the Bible-study helps. By Jehovah’s undeserved kindness I even gave a public talk in Italian to an audience of four hundred in Roseto, Pennsylvania.
Meanwhile the Society’s headquarters had moved from Allegheny, Pennsylvania, to Brooklyn, New York. In December, 1909, I was invited to work in the Brooklyn Bethel. What a privilege to be a member of this dedicated family! Before a year passed I was assigned to serve the nearby Italian people, who showed much interest in God’s kingdom. None of them could give public talks, so I did what I could, and the Lord blessed my efforts. Frequent lectures were arranged in Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
After I had gained some experience in this work, the Society sent me on regular “pilgrim” trips to distant places. On one such assignment to St. Louis a number of Catholic youths came to the meeting with stones in their pockets ready to throw at me if they did not like what was said. No stones were thrown, but after listening to the talk some remained to ask Bible questions and became interested in the truth.
In Rochester, a man came up to me after the lecture and engaged me in heated discussion for over an hour. He left convinced we had the truth and later became a full-time pioneer minister. He is still faithful in Jehovah’s work. During another lecture, in Springfield, Massachusetts, some rowdies came up on the platform and tried to interfere. I talked louder than they did, and the audience kept listening attentively. Finally the troublemakers left. Two families who attended that lecture later became ministers of the good news.
Early in 1914, the Society’s Photo-Drama of Creation was shown to the English-speaking people, accompanied by recorded explanatory talks. When these talks were later translated into Italian, I was invited to read them while the pictures were being shown. Knowing that it took two hours to present each of the Drama’s four parts, I wondered if I could handle it. Since Jehovah had blessed my feeble efforts at public speaking, I was anxious to try. He gave me strength, and I got along well. Thousands attended the showings and many left their names requesting more Bible information. Others shared with me in the joyful work of calling on these people in the Bethel area and furthering their interest.
One sister in the truth, Grace Harris, impressed with the zeal and energy that I gladly put into the Drama talks, fell in love with the speaker. We were married by Brother Russell in 1916. Grace has been a real helpmate to me for over forty years and still is. For all this I am very grateful to Jehovah.
When the Drama had served its purpose, it left me more time to devote to my duties in the Society’s Italian department translating letters and helping with correspondence. It was wonderful to be at the Bethel home! Then, in 1916, we all received a great shock. Brother Russell died on the train that was bringing him back from a West Coast lecture tour. ‘What shall we do now?’ many asked. We believed Brother Russell was “that servant” of Matthew 24:45-47, in whose care all Kingdom interests were entrusted. Was our work finished or should we continue to preach the good news as we had done during his earthly lifetime? A few became discouraged and quit, but the majority kept on working and were richly blessed by the Lord.
At the business meeting in January, 1917, Brother Joseph Rutherford was elected president of the Society. All went well for a time until a few brothers who thought they were lawful directors of the Society tried to change the bylaws and gain control of the work. Their attempt to make the president a mere figurehead who would serve their ambitions did not succeed, but it did cause much confusion and sorrow to the friends who had been loyal to the Society for years. Failing, the rebels left Bethel and the work. Things then proceeded nicely until the summer of 1918.
That year a group of ministers of false religion urged the United States government to halt the work of the Society on the grounds that its officers were disloyal to the war effort. It was asserted that our preaching God’s kingdom as the only hope and pointing out World War I as a fulfillment of prophecy was likely to discourage men from going to war. The charges caused the arrest and trial of the Society’s officers and associates for not taking an active part in the war. For counseling my young brother on the proper manner of requesting classification as a minister, which he was, I became a defendant in the case.
We were given what was to be later proved an unfair trial. Off we went to the Federal prison in Atlanta, Georgia. While the others received very long sentences, mine was comparatively short. Brother Macmillan, one of my fellow defendants, still says this was due to my being shorter in stature than the others. In the prison tailor shop I found a number of other Italians serving time for counterfeiting money. I witnessed to them about God’s kingdom of peace and perfection for mankind. Some listened with appreciation; others thought it was too good to be true.
Justice began to triumph, and we were released from Atlanta in the spring of 1919, later to be fully exonerated. Returning to Brooklyn, we were received by many friends who gathered to greet us. It was a happy family reunion. That September, at Cedar Point, Ohio, over 7,000 dedicated friends assembled in convention to learn, if possible, what the Lord would have us do. To our delight we saw from the Bible that a great work was yet to be done in preaching the Kingdom message to the nations. We returned to Cedar Point for another convention in 1922, where all were electrified with the prospects of greater things ahead. Grace and I rejoiced to have a full-time share in this ever-increasing Kingdom work.
We were busy at our Bethel assignments and the years raced swiftly by. We attended many conventions of Jehovah’s people, such as the ones in Columbus in 1931 and 1937, St. Louis in 1941, Los Angeles in 1947, and the first big assembly in New York’s Yankee Stadium in 1950. All were joyful experiences as we saw God prospering the growth of his earthly organization.
In 1951, and again in 1955, the Society and our friends made it possible for us to visit Italy, where I had the joy of speaking to a number of congregations of our brothers. During the 1955 trip we were among several thousand who toured Europe attending conventions in many cities. The assembly in Rome at the beautiful auditorium originally intended to glorify Mussolini was a praise to Jehovah’s name and deeply impressed the people of Rome.
Back in Brooklyn my wife and I are happy to have a regular part in the door-to-door, back-call and home Bible study work. We also appreciate the importance of attending the meetings and assemblies provided by Jehovah. Though sometimes tired at meeting time, we always return home greatly refreshed.
Reviewing fifty-four years spent in Jehovah’s service, I can truthfully say these have been the happiest years of my life. Fifty-one of them have been as a member of the Brooklyn Bethel family—a privilege of service I wholeheartedly recommend to any young Christian. To be sure, there have been some trials, but these increased our faith in Jehovah. I have never doubted that he is using the Society to direct the world-wide witness work that Jesus foretold at Matthew 24:14. As Paul said, any tribulations “do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us.”—Rom. 8:18.
Our great hope is to have part in God’s new world of righteousness, where we can praise and serve him forever. With Jehovah’s help, we shall successfully pursue this blessed purpose in life.*** w55 4/15 237 Part 8: International Attempt to Destroy Society Fails ***
On May 7, 1918, warrants were issued by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York to arrest eight brothers connected with the Society’s management and editorial committee. They were J. F. Rutherford, W. E. Van Amburgh, A. H. Macmillan, R. J. Martin, C. J. Woodworth, G. H. Fisher, F. H. Robison and G. DeCecca. The next day, May 8, those warrants were served at Bethel by United States Marshal Power. Shortly after their arrest the eight were arraigned in the federal court, Judge Garvin presiding, and all were met with an indictment previously returned by the grand jury, charging that the eight above named—