Posts by slimboyfat

37

NO SUPPORT FOR EXJWS DRAFTED IN UKRAINE

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ulan2hhagz8?si=jpedzunzb5o_6axd.

here’s a cautionary tale for anyone counting on past ties with jehovah’s witnesses to dodge conscription: they’ll throw you under the bus faster than you can say “conscientious objector.” a man in ukraine learned this the hard way after refusing military service and hoping his old religious connections would save him.

spoiler alert—they didn’t.

slimboyfat

There’s another aspect worth considering too: that, in past wars, states that have allowed exemptions on religious grounds have insisted on high standards for being included in that exempt category. Any suggestion that non-JWs were attempting to gain exemption from combat on the basis of weak links to the community might undermine ability of the whole community to claim exemption. In past situations, “minister” status has been required as proof of exemption on religious grounds, which JWs have sometimes successfully argued should apply to all JWs because they all preach. If this person was not currently participating in the ministry, for whatever reason, that may have been a significant barrier to him claiming exemption under the banner of JWs. If this is a factor, then the local elders might not wish to get involved in the case, not out of malice, but because of a real danger of putting others at risk if the authorities perceive the category of JWs is being interpreted too liberally for purposes of avoiding combat.

There as so many things we don’t know about the case, or the reasons for the actions, I don’t think there are good grounds for rushing to judgment.

263

Where is Tony?

by Athanasius in

jw
friends

on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.

in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.

slimboyfat

I hope he’s okay. The more time passes, the more I think, despite his obvious flaws, he was a more likeable member of the GB.

37

NO SUPPORT FOR EXJWS DRAFTED IN UKRAINE

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ulan2hhagz8?si=jpedzunzb5o_6axd.

here’s a cautionary tale for anyone counting on past ties with jehovah’s witnesses to dodge conscription: they’ll throw you under the bus faster than you can say “conscientious objector.” a man in ukraine learned this the hard way after refusing military service and hoping his old religious connections would save him.

spoiler alert—they didn’t.

slimboyfat

I saw these at a museum a while back - communion tokens. The minister would visit each home in the parish to ascertain whether they were in good standing and if they were they could receive a communion token which entitled them to receive communion.

33

Museum Pic

by peacefulpete in

a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

slimboyfat

Lutheran, mainstream Norway state church

33

Museum Pic

by peacefulpete in

a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

slimboyfat

Cross and crown I saw in church in Norway

37

NO SUPPORT FOR EXJWS DRAFTED IN UKRAINE

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ulan2hhagz8?si=jpedzunzb5o_6axd.

here’s a cautionary tale for anyone counting on past ties with jehovah’s witnesses to dodge conscription: they’ll throw you under the bus faster than you can say “conscientious objector.” a man in ukraine learned this the hard way after refusing military service and hoping his old religious connections would save him.

spoiler alert—they didn’t.

slimboyfat

Seems pretty reasonable to me, if you want to have the benefits of membership then you have to actually be a member. By implication this case, as presented here, tends to indicate that that military age men in good standing are supported by the organisation in their refusal to do military service and that this has some weight with the authorities. How do we know that the person just “broke a few rules” as you put it? What if he wrecked someone’s marriage, or worse, committed a serious crime, why should the congregation put themselves on the line to support him if those were the circumstances?

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

The subordination of the Son to the Father only became a problem when the initial teaching about Jesus being a mighty spirit creature was abandoned in favour of the new Trinitarian orthodoxy. Martin Werner explain the development.

The Primitive Christian conception of the Messiah as a high angelic being also explains for us the fact, which is of great doctrinal importance, that in the Primitive Christian are there was no sign of any kind of Trinitarian problem or controversy, such as later produced violent conflicts in the Church. The reason for this undoubtedly lay in the fact that, for Primitive Christianity, Christ was, in terms of late-Jewish apocalyptic, a being of the high celestial angel-world, who was created and chosen by God for the task of bringing in, at the end of the ages, against the daimonic-powers of the existing world, the new aeon of the Kingdom of God. Hence there was no ground for any new problem concerning the relationship of Christ to God. On this decisive point, on which everything depends, further clarification is necessary. Because the relationship of Christ to God the Father was conditioned by the direct and essential connection of the concept of the Christ with the doctrine of angels, that relation-ship was understood unequivocally as being one of 'subordination', ie. in the sense of the subordination of Christ to God. Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with reference to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination. And the most decisive Subordinationist of the New Testament, according to the Synoptic record, was Jesus himself (cf. for example Mk. x, 18; xiii, 32; xiv, 36). This original position, firm and manifest as it was, was able to maintain itself for a long time. 'All the great pre-Nicene theologians repre-sented the subordination of the Logos to God.'' The Trinitarian problem first emerged when the Church in its theology was constrained for certain reasons, which were connected with the process of de-eschatologising, to abandon the concept of subordination for that of coordination. Almost insoluble difficulties then inevitably produced themselves, which in turn necessarily provoked great strife. They concerned, on the one side, the concept of God, and, on the other, the relationship of the new theology to the New Testament as the canon of dogma.
Martin Werner, The Formation of Christian Dogma (1957), pages 124 and 125.

The whole book is well worth reading.

26

What if JWs voted in elections?

by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

all this political banter is exhausting, so i want to ask a question that has probably been asked before, so here it goes….

let’s try to keep this non-partisan - just give your opinion and why you think that way.. i’ll go first.

i think jws would generally lean to the right, but not by a whole lot.

slimboyfat

Rutherford was a supporter and campaigner for Democratic presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan, before he became a Bible Student, and in the 1930s he opposed FDR in strong terms in the literature, likening him to European dictators and, I think, describing him as a tool of Satan.

24

The HLC do not pressure JWs

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

the hospital liaison committee (hlc) for jehovah’s witnesses does not pressure members to refuse blood transfusions.

rather, their role is to support jehovah’s witnesses in adhering to their pre-existing religious beliefs, which include a strict prohibition against accepting blood transfusions based on their interpretation of biblical scriptures.. jehovah’s witnesses are well-informed about their stance on blood from an early age, and refusing blood is a deeply ingrained religious conviction, not something imposed during a medical crisis.

the hlc’s purpose is to provide assistance in accessing bloodless treatment options, facilitating communication with healthcare providers, and helping ensure that the patient’s choices are respected.. while the hlc strongly supports adherence to the beliefs of jehovah’s witnesses, the ultimate decision remains with the individual.

slimboyfat

Practices no doubt vary in different places, but from my own limited experience, over the past 20 years or so, elders seems to be very laid back over blood issue, they tend to respect privacy, and only get involved if invited by the JW patient to do so. This is a far cry from what I read in the old literature about health care workers leaking private medical records of JWs who broke the blood ban and parents kidnapping children from the hospital. I think those days are gone.

26

What if JWs voted in elections?

by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

all this political banter is exhausting, so i want to ask a question that has probably been asked before, so here it goes….

let’s try to keep this non-partisan - just give your opinion and why you think that way.. i’ll go first.

i think jws would generally lean to the right, but not by a whole lot.

slimboyfat

According to Pew Research in the US in 2014, as you would expect, most JWs refused to answer the question on political affiliation or stated a neutral position. But out of those who answered the question and stated a party political preference, JWs were overwhelmingly Democrat supporters, by more than 2 to 1. JWs are disproportionally female, black, and have lower education/income - all groups which traditionally lean Democrat to varying degrees. Pew also classes their ideology as conservative largely on the basis of answers to questions on abortion and evolution. Have things changed since 2014? Maybe there’ll be a new survey soon.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/