Too bad, Brother Mike. Somehow, I sense that you have been pining for something you miss from the JWs. I understand that. They offered me a sense of security, community and friendship like I had not experienced anywhere. But, at what cost? It was too high a price for me once I realized what I would have to give up intellectually and morally. I broke away while facing fears of what would happen next; fears of being alone without family and friends; with limited options of expressing my feelings to someone and receiving comfort. It was worth it. I could not live with myself and perpetuate a lie. Perhaps you're not there yet and it will take you longer until you simply can't stand the hypocrisy of the WTBTS. If you can live with that, then that's your lot in life. But, you won't be able to blame anyone but yourself. If you change your mind and accept the consequences of your action, it's OK. That's how we learn to walk and do many other things: by failing and correcting our ways. I hope there will always be time for you to do that.
Posts by Etude
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59Goodbye and Thank You Jw Net (Last Post)
by Brother Mike ini would like to thank everyone for the discussions that we've all had.
after all of them i have realized, all of you have made me realized that after all of the stuff i have been through, i just need a good friend.
and regardless of how hostile our discussion could get i have felt that you have all shared something with me that have helped me.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Etude
Perry: I seem to recall another thread here, which assumed that atheists started out resisting the idea of God. I’m not saying that this is the issue here. However, just in case, it’s a too-quick an assumption that when people become atheists it always happens suddenly and irrevocably. I for one always wanted to “believe”. My choice to not believe was a reluctant one, but an inevitable one based on what I learned and reasoned.
The problem with what you stated is that “encountering God” is a very subjective thing. This is where my point about “wanting to believe” is not sufficient to creating the outcome you describe for you and Kirstin. It is so self-contained in the head of the one experiencing it that it becomes an improbable and unsustainable event for the impartial on-looker. If someone doesn’t get it, it’s usually explained away as the fault of the person not really wanting it or not doing something right. I don’t buy it. It seems to me a lot easier to believe if one is already predisposed, the way I was about so many religions, but especially about God.
I’m also intrigued about Kirstin’s conversion from an “uber-liberal” to what I assume (the Fox-So-Called-News) ultra-conservative mindset. I find it intriguing in light of that mindset’s practice of Social Darwinism contrary to Christ’s teachings. That’s not to say that Kirstin herself believes in not providing for the poor. But it would seem she’s embracing the same type of thinking as the other pundits on Fox News. I also have misgivings between the alignment of fundamental religious beliefs and the conservative political agenda that happens to think of the poor as leaches on our government’s ability to social welfare.
I addressed the idea of what happens in one’s head or what the experience my actually transpire when someone is “touched by the lord” or when “Christ comes knocking” or when the “Holy Spirit takes over you”. I wrote at length with Tammy in this thread, especially from page 27 onward. What I’ve come to know, given any lack of verification I can get my hands on, is that the “conversion processes” or the “being saved” idea is a very individual and personal idea that cannot be verified outside the one who experiences it. Therefore, it’s impossible to verify, replicate or emulate as much as one wants to. I’m sure there are many reasons for the happening, ones that may have some ultimate value. But that doesn’t make the idea of God true or real.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Etude
Tammy: Your topic is confusing. Gopher is right. In my experience, it is the theists who, for the most part, contend that good morals come from faith and belief in God in general. It is not just an incorrect assumption atheists make about what theists think. Whether atheists assume that or not, the point is that it is to a large degree what religious people contend in the first place. So, I fail to see your argument on that account or a valid denial of what atheists think.
On your second point (everyone except Christians go to Hell), I grew up most of my life being indoctrinated by the Catholic, Protestants and the JW churches believing that this is the case for each of them. So, I don’t see the point of denying what atheists may believe about theists when in reality it is the theists that contend the very point you’re arguing against.
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79
The life differences between a good christian and good athiest
by EndofMysteries inlet's compare a christian who goes to a non judgemental / non guilt trip church which focuses really on the gospels, jesus teachings on being non judgemental, anything out of love there is no law against, and they contribute to society.
then an athiest who if you put side by side w/ the above christian, you would not know any difference unless you asked their beliefs.
both are good people, who are able to lead lives doing what they want, enjoying their life, and trying to help their neighbors too.
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Etude
EndofMysteries: I find the scenario you present interesting and yet a bit confusing because I don’t think the parallel you present is actually a parallel but diverging ideas instead. For example: You present two individuals leading an exemplary life but one (the religious one) dying with hope that the other (the atheist) dying without hope. Why must it be so? It doesn’t have to be. There are other possibilities. First of all, assuming that hope actually means something or that it has any possibility of bringing a different path after death, I don’t see why an atheist can’t hope that by preserving his DNA and with some sort of memory retrieval by a new scientific means that s/he can’t attain the hope to live again. There are cryogenic banks that preserve people today in the hope that science can revive them and restore their bodies again. That’s hope. Isn’t it?
What about the religious person who dies with hope and gets none because there was never a god to begin with who was going to bring a resurrection and a better life? At least for the atheist not having any hope and receiving none is not such a raw deal because, being dead, s/he would never know what did or did not happen. That would assume that the god who gives hope to the religious person would not revive the atheists just to torture him or her. The question of happiness based on a single outcome (resurrection) is meaningless. Happiness is a by-product of living, not dying. It is the way you lead your life that produces it. I think there’s probably a good degree of satisfaction at the end of one’s life, after having lived it well to not care what happens afterwards.
I don’t understand the idea of comparison between an atheist and a religious person, both living an exemplary life. It goes without saying that whether one believes in God or not, people can be moral and generous and kind. So, religion has nothing to do with those attributes. Why should that earn points for the religious individual and not for the atheist regardless of belief?
Thinking about the first option for the atheist, I think it’s just as good a deal for the theist if science were to find a way to bring all people back in some future. The problem would be that the religious person would be disappointed about who brought him or her back. Still, it’s better to be a live dog than a dead lion.
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74
The Gall Of WT To Give This Advice To Pioneers:
by JW GoneBad inthis past week's wt study lesson was entitled: 'pioneering strengthens our relationship with god'.. under the subheading 'remaining in the full-time service' in par 14 the wt has the nerve to give this admonition to pioneers: .
'desiring to learn from jesus' example, a pioneer does well to keep in mind that the more material things he has, the more he will have to maintain , repair, or replace.'.
i don't think the gb or anyone in the writing department has the freedom to speak on giving adivce on the matter of 'material things' given the fact that wt has close to a billion dollars in real estate and loads of money in various bank accounts; given the fact that gb is currently building themselves new living quarters with who knows what sort of comforts and other amenities.
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Etude
Brother Mike: If I were to tell an investor that "it would be interesting" that Twitter was planning an IPO at $26 and that the stock could possibly jump to $42 before it was announced, I be thrown in jail for insider trading. Don't split hairs here. You or the WTBTS can't get away with that and then blame the people who acted on a "tip" for their own foolishness. Whatever they said was more than a suggestion. It was an enticement and it was wrong and obviously just wishful thinking based on some stupid chronology. Of course they weren't going to come out and say it plainly! They'd tried before and were wrong then. They were just being a bit more careful that last time.
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HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!
by Etude ini'm thankful for my wife, my dog, my friends, my life and this forum.
i can think of other things i could be thankful for that have not come to pass.
but for now, it looks pretty good from here.
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Etude
I'm thankful for my wife, my dog, my friends, my life and this forum. I can think of other things I could be thankful for that have not come to pass. But for now, it looks pretty good from here. I wish you all the best.
Etude.
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47
First time poster
by kneehighmiah ini finally decided to post.
i'm so scared of being caught, so i'll be vague.
i'm an appointed brother.
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Etude
Glad to have you aboard, kneehighmiah. I think that if you keep going in the same direction you're in now, you will be able to look back in a few years and marvel at your own transformation. I think that for a lot of people, leaving does not happen overnight. Be careful. Try to retain your friends and family if that's possible.
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162
True Stories from the Tower - Part 1 "From Anointed to Pedophile to Bethelite"
by BluePill2 inbefore i dive into the actual write-up of this experience, let me put some things straight.. i have thought long and hard if i should write more about my experiences during the 10+ years at different branches.
during these years i worked from financial department, service department, home office and different it assignments.
as you can imagine one sees and hears and reads a lot of stuff going through different stations in different countries.
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Etude
I'm very saddened by but not shocked at your story. Each similar story bears its own pain. The thing is, I've seen some and heard more of equally bad experiences that I feel a bit blasé and unsurprised about such happenings (of course, not about the victims). I can still feel anger about those happenings but that's a hard thing to live with for any extended time. I don’t want to be angry all the time. I don't know what it will take to shock me about the JW organization. Nevertheless, I think it should all be heard. Please continue to tell it like you saw it. It's not just cathartic for you but also for the rest of us.
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33
First Post - Introduction
by Syme inthis is my first post on jwn, and i would like to take a few lines to introduce myself.. i currently am still in the organization, though my conviction in the last 1-2 years is more or less agnostic/atheist (closer to atheist).
i am an ex-elder and mts graduate, having served in another 3 congregations, apart from my home one.. the reason for the above-mentioned conviction shift has to do with science and rational, logical thinking generally, and with the grand theory of evolution, specifically.
it took me long, endless sessions of hard reading and study of serious scientific literature (plus cross-matching all the quotes and claims in jw evolution-related literature), to finally make the shift from utterly firm religious belief to doubt, and then to lack of religious faith.
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Alzheimer's hallucinations are demons?
by Once Blind inmy father has been suffering from alzheimer's for a couple of years now.
my mother keeps referring to his hallucinations as demons.
i haven't been to the hall in a while, i've been fading for 20 years now, but i find this amazing!
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Etude
Please make arrangements and take your mom to a session at your local Alzheimer’s Association chapter. Call them first and set it up. The counsel is free. I think that what will transpire might set your mom’s mind at ease. It will help everyone understand the symptoms and the progression of the disease. My mom died from the condition and I felt it was ironic that, after being a faithful Witness for a long time, she had no idea what God was, let along the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In the end, they all abandoned her anyway.
