Forscher

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Posts by Forscher

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  13

  'Other sheep' being cleansed

  by kwintestal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  i was just wondering where the wts gets the idea of the 'other sheep' who survive the 'great tribulation' becoming cleansed.. i know revelations speaks specifically of the 144,000 "washing themsleves in the blood of the lamb", thereby becomming cleansed, or perfect.. the wts teaches that the 'other sheep' become cleansed gradually over the 1,000 year reign, but wouldn't they themselves need to be washed clean (obviously symbolic) in jesus' blood somehow?.

  kwin

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  Forscher

  Check out Rev. 7:13,14:
  
  *** Rbi8 Revelation 7:13-14 ***
  
  13 And in response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
  
  
  It says that they "have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb." That sounds like a cleansing to me.
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  28

  How Many??

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ip_sec did this once, but with all the newbs, i think it merits being done again.. so, how many of you are still active, meeting attending witnesses?

  priviledges count for bonus points.. priviledge list:.

  cleaning toilets: 2 points.

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  Forscher

  Haven't been to a meeting in over a year (I think the last one was the memorial before last and attended only a very few in the 2 years prior.). So I reckon a big 0!
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  15

  State control on cults

  by greendawn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you think it's a good idea if the state puts tight controls on cult like organisations like the jws and many others, eg to control the power of their judicial committees or have warnings in their books/mags or even kingdom halls that they use in them mind control techniques?

  or warnings about the consequences of leaving the wts after baptism.

  the jc are secretive kangaroo courts made up of incompetent people taking decisions against adults but even against under age children that can have destructive consequences on their lives.

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  Forscher

  Although we consider what freedoms we have on this side of the pond something not to be given up without very good cause, we do admit that no freedom is absolute. For instance, freedom of religion does not mean that the Thugee cult has the freedom to sacrifice humans. To that degree the government does have the right to step in. The big question that we are wrestling with is whether groups can claim ecclesiastical priveledge in the matter of reporting pedophiles. In view of recent events involving pedophiles in Florida and Idaho, we may see a crackdown on them, including denying chuches ecclesiastical privilege, coming down the pipe in an effort to put a stop to the problem. That despite the fact that the cases mentioned did not involve any churches trying to hide them.
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  25

  A special Christian message to terrorists.......

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  london has my sincerest condolences on this great day of tragedy.

  during this difficult time, it is easy to become full of hate and want vengence.

  i know all about those feelings, and i remember in the bible somewhere where it states, "vengence is mine, sayith the lord.

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  Forscher

  Way to go Wingcommander! And welcome to the board!
  
  
  Careful Tetra. Not every believer thinks that Bush is God's gift to humanity. Many considered him the lesser of the evils put forward by the election process here.
  
  ;-)
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  26

  Jehovah's Court case -- Witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  by garybuss in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's court case -- witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  the jehovah's witnesses's founder was an attorney called "judge" rutherford.

  he saw everything, even religion, as a legal case.

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  Forscher

  Garybuss said: "I seem to remember the Proclaimers book said Rutherford eventually tried case(s) at the Supreme Court. As an attorney, if it's true, it would be quite an accomplishment. Rutherford's rants and rages in print look to me to be the writings of a lunatic."
  
  He did argue some cases before the Supreme Court. And lost them to boot! His most famous example being the "Gobitis" case were the SC ruled against the JWs on the flag salute (Covington would later get that one reversed when he argued the issue in "West Virginia Bd. of Ed. v. Barnett" [1943]). According to a book I read in high school, the judge seemed to feel that he could go before the Supremes with the same attitude that he had toward the audience at the conventions (talking down at them) and get what he wanted. It didn't work too well.
  
  ;-)
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  15

  Can you tell me about this "inspection"

  by Sunspot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  it seems that at the 2005 district convention, that the idea that jesus had come in 1919 and had chosen the wts, was mentioned three times.. i have yet to see where this was proven other than the wts "saying" that it happened.. can anyone show the proof concerning this monumental event?.

  annie.

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  Forscher

  First, nobody can "prove" the inspection happened. The GB simply strings a few prophecies together and declares that it happened. Here is a typical explanation from the Watchtower;
  
  
  *** w93 5/1 pp. 15-17 Expanded Activities During Christ’s Presence ***
  
  Expanded Activities During Christ’s Presence
  
  “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.’”—MATTHEW 25:34.
  
  CHRIST’S presence—the long-awaited event! The time like “the days of Noah,” which Jesus spoke of in connection with “the conclusion of the system of things,” arrived in the year 1914. (Matthew 24:3, 37) But what would Christ’s presence, or pa·rou·si´a, mean for the anointed remnant of “the faithful and discreet slave”? (Matthew 24:45) Why, that they would have to become increasingly more active as light bearers! Marvelous things were due to happen! An unprecedented gathering work was about to begin.
  
  2 First, though, these anointed Christians needed cleansing. As Malachi 3:1-5 had foretold, Jehovah God and his “messenger of the covenant,” Jesus Christ, came to inspect the spiritual temple in the spring of 1918. Judgment was to begin with “the house of God.” (1 Peter 4:17) Malachi 3:3 foretold: “He [Jehovah] must sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and must cleanse the sons of Levi; and he must clarify them like gold and like silver.” It was a period of refining and cleansing.
  
  3 Passing through this judgment, which climaxed in 1918, the remnant of the slave class was cleansed from worldly and religious defilement. Why did Jehovah cleanse them? Because his spiritual temple was involved. This is the templelike arrangement for worshiping Jehovah on the basis of the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Jehovah wanted his temple to be in a clean condition so that when large numbers of worshipers with earthly hopes were brought there, they would find a place where his universal sovereignty is respected, where his divine name is sanctified, and where his righteous laws are obeyed. Thus, they would appreciate Jehovah and join in making known his grand purposes.
  
  Added Privileges
  
  4 In 1919 the cleansed slave class could look forward to ever-expanding activities. Back in 1914, Jesus Christ, their Master, had obtained a heavenly Kingdom. When he returned to his household staff to inspect all his “domestics,” he was arrayed in royal dignity, which he had not possessed when he was down here on earth. What did he find? Was the slave class busy caring for the Master’s interests? As recorded at Matthew 24:45-47, Jesus asked a question that challenged each anointed disciple to examine his personal devotion to Jehovah’s Messiah: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”
  
  5 Obviously, Jesus’ description of this faithful slave does not fit any individual human. No, but it does describe Christ’s faithful anointed congregation as a whole, as a group. The domestics are Christ’s anointed followers as individuals. Jesus knew that he was going to purchase these anointed ones with his own blood, so he fittingly referred to them collectively as his slave. First Corinthians 7:23 says of them: “YOU [speaking collectively] were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men.” Jesus commissioned his slave class to let their light shine to attract and make other disciples and to feed his domestics progressively by giving them their spiritual food at the proper time.
  
  6 From the time Christ’s presence began and down to 1918, the slave class, despite unpopularity, persecution, and even some confusion, had been seeking to give timely food to the domestics. This is what the Master found when his inspection began. The Lord Jesus was pleased, and in 1919 he pronounced that faithful approved slave class happy. What was the slave’s delightful reward for doing what his Master had appointed him to do? A promotion! Yes, larger responsibilities were given in advancing his Master’s interests. Since the Master was now a heavenly King, why, then, his earthly belongings became even more precious.
  
  7 So, what are “all his belongings”? These are all the spiritual assets on earth that have become Christ’s property in connection with his authority as heavenly King. This definitely included the commission to make disciples of Christ, with the grand privilege of acting as representatives of God’s established Kingdom to all the nations of the world.
  
  8 Such a promotion to oversight of all the Master’s belongings demanded that the slave class give more time and attention to getting the Kingdom work done and, yes, develop larger facilities for that work. It now had a much greater field of work—the entire inhabited earth."
  
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  As illustrated by the above, they are simply interpreting scripture and fitting things together in a way that appears to give them the authority that they claim. If one accepts that they have the authority to do that, then it is the end of the matter as illustrated by the apologists for the WTBTS that we encounter here and elswhere on the net. However, it only takes a little critical thinking to see the flaws in their arguments. One of the posters here likes to quote Matt. 7:20 (The entire passage includes verses 15-20) "By their fruits you will know them." I tend to agree with him/her. If I could see by their actions that they really do follow the master, then I could put up with a few imperfections now and then. I don't think that I should hold folks to an impossible standard. After 30 years, though, I feel that their actions just don't back up the claims.
  
  As to the lack of the FDS doctrine in the new "Knowledge" book, It is not that surprising to me. Notice that they moved it to the new "organization' book. In view of the rising number of people with a higher education in modern society, it's pretty obvious that they want to wait until they've already got people roped in before they spring that doctrine on them.
  
  Just my opinion.
  
  Forscher
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  26

  Jehovah's Court case -- Witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  by garybuss in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's court case -- witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  the jehovah's witnesses's founder was an attorney called "judge" rutherford.

  he saw everything, even religion, as a legal case.

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  Forscher

  Try the stern, merciless god who delites in punishing all but the chosen in the spirit of the famous sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God." That sermon was delivered by a famous preacher of one of the faiths of the Calvionist tradition here many years ago. CTR emphasized a much more loving god in his teachings, even portaying armaggedon as more of a breakdown in society rather than a world-wide butchery.
  
  When the judge took over, he found it more useful to bring in the evangelical idea of complete world destruction and revenge on God's part and rule his flock with fear rather than inspire them with God's love. This stern kind of God is very much in the Calvinist tradition.
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  36

  Psychoanalyzing the Governing Body and Other High Ranking Ones from a Dista

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  psychoanalyzing the governing body and other high ranking ones from a distance.. i'm interested in some professional opinions on this, what makes these guys tick, what makes them perpetuate a fraud on the rest of jehovah's witnesses?.

  i know some can be pretty dogmatic in these areas, lets not try to be, lets look at this thing from many angles.

  even if your not a professional give your opinions.

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  Forscher

  I think that it was sumed up well by Ray Franz when he quoted one of their number complaining that as a "Governing Body" they weren't ruling over nothing. That was just before they siezed power from Knorr and Fred Franz. It's all about power.
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  26

  Jehovah's Court case -- Witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  by garybuss in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's court case -- witnesses are killed who don't testify.

  the jehovah's witnesses's founder was an attorney called "judge" rutherford.

  he saw everything, even religion, as a legal case.

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  Forscher

  Not a bad synopsis Gary. I don't think that many realize that the judge remolded things from a lawyer's perspective with a Calvinist flavor (remember he'd been a Baptist and brought it's Calvivnist's underpinnings into the organization's theological outlook).
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  170

  What does your name MEAN?

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all are identified by our names here on jwd.

  some use their real names, and others pick a moniker that is their nickname or perhaps a few words from a song they like.. why did you pick your name?.

  for instance,.

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  Forscher

  Dorayakii said;
  
  "Forscher as in 'Bibelforscher'?"
  
  Not really, Bibelforscher is a compound word which contains the word forscher, but it was not my intent to link myself to the name by which the Bible students and JWs were known in Germany.
  
  
  Forscher