Posts by BigG

36

Next WT Study....... Alcohol!!!

by Doubtfully Yours in

it should be most interesting.

1 out of 3 in my actual congregation has a heavy drinking problem.

i'd say that's the 'sin' that is way, way overlooked by the wtbts.

BigG

An elder who was into his Single Malt Whiskeys used to give me a wee dram as they say in Scotland...trouble is I was only 16...not that im bothered or was bothered; he was one of the few elders that can live and let live...lovely bloke actually as well as his wife....shame they are as misguided as the rest.

12

Impartiality Watchtower style

by Norm in

*** w03 6/15 p. 12 imitate jehovah, our impartial god ***.

imitate jehovah, our impartial god.

12-13 imitate jehovah, our impartial god ***.

BigG

There was another example of this and i apologise for not remembering where in the bible it is contained (maybe those who are more in the know can assist) but apparently some guy was hiding from wicked angels...(it could be in Sodom and Gomorrah thinking about it) and the angels were asking that the men in hiding be sent outside so the wicked angels could have relations with them...Whoever it was though didnt give the men he sent women out to satisfy them instead!!!??? and apparently whoever he was was blessed by this....now a couple of points here...one its certainly not impartial and two...does this indicate that women are to be treated less than men??!!!....from a discrimination lawyers point of view...i find this irreconcilable.

No elder has been able to explain this one to me...i wonder why???

21

Why did we become JW?

by BigG in

i was brought up in the 'truth' for many years until i was 20 or thereabouts and now being on the outside looking in i see not only jw's for what they really are but i believe i see religion for what it really is too.. consider this point, and this reminds me of a song written by alanis morrisette entitled, forgiven which is a pretty cool stab at religion itself if you read the lyrics closely...one part of the lyrics is 'we all had our reasons to be there'.

if you came into the truth, consider the reasons why, what were the circumstances of your life...were you searching for something.

even if they were brought up in it...consider the reasons why their parents started to believe.

BigG

I was brought up in the 'truth' for many years until i was 20 or thereabouts and now being on the outside looking in I see not only JW's for what they really are but I believe I see religion for what it really is too.

Consider this point, and this reminds me of a song written by Alanis Morrisette entitled, Forgiven which is a pretty cool stab at religion itself if you read the lyrics closely...one part of the lyrics is 'we all had our reasons to be there'. If you came into the truth, consider the reasons why, what were the circumstances of your life...were you searching for something. If you were brought up in the 'troof' then ask yourself why your parents were in the truth or what circumstances they were in before such time.

Even if they were brought up in it...consider the reasons why their parents started to believe. Whilst i havent conducted any surveys or conducted any academic research into this i can bet we were not truly happy with our lives, we had void that needed to be filled. Along comes a JW who shows us the scripture which says that 'happy are those conscious of their spiritual needs' and BANG the void starts to be filled with the indoctrination of JW teachings (or any other religion that has happened to pass through our lives).

From the people I have spoken to I realise that religion as a whole catagorically works for those at the top, the pope in catholicism, whoever is at the top of the mormon church, the bishops in the Church of England etc etc. For the minions who believe this drivel, the religion serves as a crutch upon which to hang your life; it gives purpose to those who for whatever reason are not capable of developing their own purpose at that time.

Consider the days old where in ancient civilisation men and women existed on the land and they knew but didnt fully appreciate why the sun came up in the morning and went down in the evening; when rain came it made crops grow and that they ate as a result. One of the more intelligent of the people realises that this and starts to develop ideas and bring to the others attention, this 'wonderous coincidence'. People realise that what he is saying could actually be true and start to follow him.

Seeing this newfound power he has he realises that this can work to his benefit egotistically or even financially if hes lucky and so offers himself as the mediator between the elements and the people; he says that unless people recognise that he is their mediator the elements will not come and they will all die. A new religion is born...

Contrast this stoneage or early history example with today; organised religion involves men all of whom suggest that they are gods mediators, none offer any proof but people follow them. Its fundamentally wrong and serves only to assist those at the top i.e the alleged mediators.

Any organised religion in my opinion is as dangerous as the next one and I firmly believe that worship (if you choose the believe in god or a creator) is truely personal and no man should ever dictate how or when that should take place....any other views.

22

The Hitler Files. The WT had relations with UN. Also with Hitler.

by avengers in

this is part of a letter that rutherford wrote to the german empire before ww 2. .

in the declaration of facts, rutherford wrote: .

the present government of germany has declared emphatically against big business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation.

BigG

Interesting point; if they were gods mouthpiece then surely they should have known; just goes to show that it is grossly blasphemous to suggest that any man (without proof) is gods messenger.

11

Selling of Magazines and literature

by Ticker in

i was thinking the other day that the watchtower society used to sell the mag's and books to people at the doors for a set price.

i know that realisticly they need to cover costs but everyone knows they made profit off of their sales and still do through the donation method now in place.

what i wonder is how did they justify selling for a set price when it clearly says in the bible "you recieved free, give free".

BigG

I take you point wholeheartedly... I put a post on this site some weeks ago about education and how the society in general do not encourage it; the same is for business isnt it? They encourage small service enterprises and smaller supply businesses but they counsel their members about expanding or should i put it (pursuing the treasures of the world). Given that they are a large multinational enterprise themselves doesnt it seem convenient that they do not want us to acheive the same status?

No wonder maybe that is because the would prefer us NOT to understand about supply chains, sales agents, and distribution; because we will see the organisation for what it is, one big supply chain or marketing channel. Consider it this way, apologies for any inaccuracies...not been part of the borg for a long while now!!

1st Level - Watchtower and Bible Tract Society

2nd Level - National Branch Offices

3rd Level- Congregations

4th Level- Publishers????!!! (incidentally why are they called publishers?...they dont publish anything in the literature sense)

5th Level- General Public...

If that isnt a marketing channel i will eat my hat.

22

The Hitler Files. The WT had relations with UN. Also with Hitler.

by avengers in

this is part of a letter that rutherford wrote to the german empire before ww 2. .

in the declaration of facts, rutherford wrote: .

the present government of germany has declared emphatically against big business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation.

BigG

Reading the whole Declaration of Facts document i have had opportunity to review it in context; if you cast your eyes through history books the nazi government advocated, financial security, peace and prosperity for its people; (Hitler ruled at a time of depression following WW1) and as such do you not think that it was these sentiments of financial security, peace and prosperity that the society concurred after all wouldnt any of us?

Also consider the fact that Hitler didnt begin his genocide for a considerable time in his rule and the society were not to know at that point that he was to become the oppressor he was; i think applying a balance whilst the letter reads in an unfortunate fashion it is clear that any organisation in times of political upheaval and facing restrictions would simply say that 'we understand you want the best for your country and so do we as citizens'. I think this is the spirit of the letter if read with an open mind.

Any different views

39

Education - How encouraging low self esteem creates better witnesses.

by BigG in

funny title you might think but consider this point and apologies if i am covering old ground here...its not intentional.. i was raised by my mother who was and is a devout jw and as such until i was 20 (10 years ago) i was the same...trying my best to fit into the social environment i clearly was not made for but benefiting from good wholesome association with fellow brothers and sisters (note the sarcastic tone...make what you will of it).. althought at the time i didnt realise it but i was what others consider intelligent and quite academically able; i had a mind like a sponge and would spend hours in the jw library at the kh (which surprisingly enough contained non jw literature)...it was this that i read and would digest endlessly where i could.. one of those books (why it was there i dont know), was what i later undertood to be criminal law reports concerning cases that had gone before the courts.

my childish thirst for knowledge was intrigued...(i was then about 12).

the legal arguments i hadnt a clue what they meant but the facts surrounding these crimes were good reading.. i then knew i wanted to be a lawyer and that was what i said when an elder asked me what i wanted to do when i grew up; i mentioned trusting this man that i had read a book in the kh library and found it interesting...and that i wanted to be lawyer...i remember him smiling and saying that it was better to pioneer rather than seek a highly paid job...personally i didnt know what he meant properly but i felt a bit sad...and demotivated...i later in the week went back into the library and found the book had gone...!!.

BigG

Thanks for all your replies to this thread; it is indeed pertinent.

There is a saying that the 'truth will set you free'....well it does...when you finally realise that the borg is just like all the rest you are set free; free to form your own beliefs and free to live your life without guilt or threats.

Cheers; hope to speak to you soon

G

39

Education - How encouraging low self esteem creates better witnesses.

by BigG in

funny title you might think but consider this point and apologies if i am covering old ground here...its not intentional.. i was raised by my mother who was and is a devout jw and as such until i was 20 (10 years ago) i was the same...trying my best to fit into the social environment i clearly was not made for but benefiting from good wholesome association with fellow brothers and sisters (note the sarcastic tone...make what you will of it).. althought at the time i didnt realise it but i was what others consider intelligent and quite academically able; i had a mind like a sponge and would spend hours in the jw library at the kh (which surprisingly enough contained non jw literature)...it was this that i read and would digest endlessly where i could.. one of those books (why it was there i dont know), was what i later undertood to be criminal law reports concerning cases that had gone before the courts.

my childish thirst for knowledge was intrigued...(i was then about 12).

the legal arguments i hadnt a clue what they meant but the facts surrounding these crimes were good reading.. i then knew i wanted to be a lawyer and that was what i said when an elder asked me what i wanted to do when i grew up; i mentioned trusting this man that i had read a book in the kh library and found it interesting...and that i wanted to be lawyer...i remember him smiling and saying that it was better to pioneer rather than seek a highly paid job...personally i didnt know what he meant properly but i felt a bit sad...and demotivated...i later in the week went back into the library and found the book had gone...!!.

BigG

Funny title you might think but consider this point and apologies if i am covering old ground here...its not intentional.

I was raised by my mother who was and is a devout JW and as such until i was 20 (10 years ago) i was the same...trying my best to fit into the social environment i clearly was not made for but benefiting from good wholesome association with fellow brothers and sisters (note the sarcastic tone...make what you will of it).

Althought at the time i didnt realise it but i was what others consider intelligent and quite academically able; i had a mind like a sponge and would spend hours in the JW library at the KH (which surprisingly enough contained non JW literature)...it was this that i read and would digest endlessly where i could.

One of those books (why it was there i dont know), was what i later undertood to be criminal law reports concerning cases that had gone before the courts. My childish thirst for knowledge was intrigued...(i was then about 12). The legal arguments i hadnt a clue what they meant but the facts surrounding these crimes were good reading.

I then knew i wanted to be a lawyer and that was what i said when an elder asked me what i wanted to do when i grew up; i mentioned trusting this man that i had read a book in the KH library and found it interesting...and that i wanted to be lawyer...i remember him smiling and saying that it was better to pioneer rather than seek a highly paid job...personally i didnt know what he meant properly but i felt a bit sad...and demotivated...i later in the week went back into the library and found the book had gone...!!

Later as i left school at 16...i was not able to further my education i felt obligated to pioneer and work full time in the ministry...i ended up taking a job and working full time instead of pursuing my education...because i was not from a well off family.

Looking at what i know now i share my findings with you about a theory i have and perhaps there are a few of you that agree.

JW's frown upon education because it creates and encourages people to be subservient or what they call 'meek' me personally i call it 'low self esteem' and that allows them to thrive and mould people into their doctrines.

Academic ability encourages free thought and debate...and constant questioning and more importantly an open mind...which has to be the only reason as to why the JW disapprove...in fact i will hand it to them...they admit it.

How so i hear you say? Well dont they say that further education lays open young and impressionable minds to the teachings of the world?...if that isnt an admission then i dont know what is.

I am now a lawyer and i specialise in employment and human rights and i have a further story to tell about my time in the 'truth' but maybe that is for another day.

Has anyone else had similar experiences to the above?

27

Strange disfellowshippings!

by AK - Jeff in

a few years back a 'sister' in our hall was df'd for marrying a disfellowshipped man.

they were both free to remarry 'scripturally' - in their late-middle years of life.

i asked one of the local pharrasies why?

BigG

I have an absolute cracker...

I grew up in the Borg and was good friends with a one girl in the congregation; she later married the presiding overseers son who was abusive and generally a prize prick...needless to say she left him and the organisation and later she was disfellowshipped for alleged adultery...although there was never any judicial committee or anything....!!?

The exact same thing happened with another couple and nothing was done...now it just so happens that the presiding overseers son wanted to divorce his wife and remarry (scriptually) as he also had met someone new.

Three guesses as to why she was disfellowshipped then...not because she had sinned but because it was procedurally convenient to do so and also based upon a whole lot of nepotism (or however its spelled).

Typical in my opinion....hardly strange though eh?

13

Oral Arguments Before the NH Supreme Court in Berry v. Watchtower

by hawkaw in

feel free to listen to the oral arguments in front of the court by the watchtower counsel and the berry ladies counsel at below link.

remember this is a civil action brought by the berry ladies against the watchtower et.al for failing to report the abuse.

the berrys lost summary motion and have appealed.

BigG

As a lawyer this makes interesting listening although I practice in the United Kingdom.

I have to say that irrespective as to whether priviledge applied; isnt there a moral duty to report such conduct???

I am sooo glad i left them after 20 years of indoctrination.