TheListener

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Posts by TheListener

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  44

  A very disarming question you can ask jw's as an "unbelieving mate"

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my wife got dunked, so i am an "unbelieving mate" (ubm).

  however that name does offend me.

  i do believe in god, and i am deeply grateful for christ's sacrifice.

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  TheListener

  That's a good question. Too bad it doesn't work for a mate that's become inactive. I think the dubs might actually yes if asked.
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  3

  Twin-to-Twin Transfusion Syndrome on Discovery Health Channel last night

  by catchthis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was anyone able to record this?

  i only caught the last half hour of the show along with my wife.

  the program was called 'twins in peril.

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  TheListener

  I found this online. Perhaps it will be helpful. It's a discussion between Marvin Shilmer and Ron Rhoades about blood. I will paste the link and cut/paste the pertinent section. It's the only place I've seen this issue discussed where a witness viewpoint is given. The society has said nothing on this subject.

  Link: http://www.geocities.com/rogueactivex/RRhoadesvrsMShilmer-P2.htm

  CUT/PASTE SECTION:

  DMT describes unborn twin babies that have their own placenta and their own circulatory system but share some vessels between each other. Throughout the pregnancy whole blood is transfused via these shared vessels back and forth between the two babies. So, though each child has its own circulatory system (just as does a mother and her child) in the case of DMT they actually transfuse whole blood back and forth throughout the pregnancy. Of course, when whole blood is transfused between a mother and her unborn (as does sometime occur) this could cause death because of rejection of foreign tissue. But the blood of these twins is identical because they are identical twins; therefore the blood transfused back and forth does not usually cause problems because it is perfectly matched just as creation would have it...Therefore with DMT babies we have in creation a perfectly healthy and naturally occurring instance of whole blood transfusion in the 85% of occurrences of DMT cases where there is no TTTS. If we follow your premise that blood parts transferring naturally according to Jehovah's creation are maybe not "blood" that we must abstain from since this process is naturally occurring, then we must conclude that transfusion of whole blood is maybe not "blood" that we must abstain from because we see it occurring naturally in cases of DMT babies.<

  There are several valid reasons why this cannot be considered a parallel to anti-bodies/fractions being passed from a mother to her baby. First, we are actually looking at essentially *one* circulatory system not two as you assert. The blood is not removed from one and introduced into a foreign blood stream, but "naturally" belongs to both twins. There is no interruption of the corporeal circulation in utero. This being the case, we do not have a parallel to fractions being passed between two disparate systems. This, then, can not be used to override or modify God's command to abstain from blood, which when *removed* from its body can only be used for sacrifice or poured on the ground. Therefore your example is not relevant.

  As you note, even the DNA is identical in identical twins' blood as well as all inherited substances. The fact that problems occur whenever major components of blood are passed from mother to fetus only reinforces the decision to include major components in the Scriptural ban while fractions may be reasonably excluded.

  Since the above is true this second reason is largely unnecessary, but still reinforces the lack of parallel in our examples. The question is whether DMT are a "normal part of God's creation, or rather a defect. I think it can be argued that a "normal" twin pregnancy would be when the egg separates early (by 3 rd day) and both fetuses have separate amnions and chorions. In this view, a shared chorion would be considered a departure from creative design and the result of imperfection similar to the mingling of mother and baby's blood. Lending sound evidence for this is the fact that progressively later (abnormal) separation of the egg leads to greater and greater physical abnormalities and risks culminating in conjoined twins (after the twelfth day). If this conclusion is correct, your example is definitely not parallel to the passing of fractions--an undeniable part of creative design. There are no increased risks with fraction transference like there is with shared vessels in DMT.
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  84

  Morning worship comment from Bethel

  by Smoky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this email from a friend of a friend:.

  'comments made by brother lett at morning worship today.. the comments were about the work we have of bearing witness of the truth.

  " again, the angels make note of it.. we knock at the fifth house and again no one is home.

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  TheListener

  Maybe it's just me... but, why would the angels need us to go door to door to determine someone's heart condition? Couldn't they determine their heart condition without them holding a small tract in hand?
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  13

  t.i.j.k.m.o. explained

  by tijkmo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my favourite band for a long time now is called marillion...not big in usa...bigger in uk and bigger still in europe...i'm sure that the songwriter had been through something similar to myself as many of the songs reflect the exact same feelings and frustrations as me..and many a night i would put on a cd and cry myself to sleep....one of my all time favourite lines in a song..which i wish id written is- when you list all the qualities that you despise..and you realise..you're describing yourself.... anyway on an album called-holidays in eden-(sic)..there is a song called-100 nights- and one verse reads this way:-.

  they invite me to their gatherings.

  in the finer parts or town.

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  TheListener

  Thank you for the explanation and the background.
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  34

  My story.....

  by jula71 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was born into the "truth", so it is pretty much to only life i have known.

  i have been studying the bible seriously since my teens, about 15+ years.

  then it hit me about 6 months ago, i?m not really studying the bible, but rather the wt publications.

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  TheListener

  Welcome Jula. I'm in the fade process as well. Do you have family you're worried about losing after you fade?
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  44

  Are you "Spiritually Sick"???

  by JH in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why is it that a jw is considered "spiritually sick" by the elders and the members of the congregation, if he suddenly decides to stop going to meetings and doesn't see eye to eye with the organization anymore?.

  i see people who belong to other faiths, and are very active and seem spiritually healthy, even though they don't believe in what jw's teach.. .

  i've been told by elders, that i was "spiritually sick".

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  TheListener

  MzSweetz if there's a subject you'd like to actually discuss start a topic. Commenting randomly on various threads about lack of proof is insulting. Tell us what proof you've seen and how or why you don't agree with it. It is nice to be able to have a discussion of a subject and still not agree at the end.
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  30

  Baptize 'em young, keep 'em outta Sports - My notes from the last assembly

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had heard of accounts of young baptisms, but i figured it was the exception rather than the rule.

  now i wonder, after viewing the models of youth paraded at the last assembly.

  i took note of the ages and age of baptism of the five young men (no girls this time) who were interviewed as models of jw youth at this last week's assembly.

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  TheListener

  Welcome MzSweetz, it's nice to have a new and loving member of the forum.
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  22

  The Contribution Box

  by professor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have always wondered: to what extent do the elders go to get contributions?.

  how closely do you think the elders work with individuals?.

  i left the org.

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  TheListener

  I've never seen nor heard of someone being pressured publicly or behind the scenes regarding donations.

  I can imagine certain elder bodies giving stronger than society recommended talks about contributions though. The society is bad enough but when some power hungry elder or elder body goes to town on a congregation that really makes me mad.
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  40

  Would the W.T. be open for massive lawsuits if they changed blood policy?

  by hubert in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i was just thinking of this, because of my last post topic.

  if the watchtower changed their no blood policy to accepting whole blood, would and could that .

  open the flood gates for law suits from jdubs that sacrificed their children for the tower, or would .

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  TheListener

  As a side note. I just wanted to say that I'm amazed that most of the people I talk to at the hall don't even remember the WTs stance against organ transplants. This includes pioneers, elders and servants. Very few actually remember the 1995 change in the generation understanding either.

  Let's face it, the society has a very high turnover rate and they use that to their advantage. Strong witnesses don't go around the hall discussing all of the doctrinal changes on a regular basis so the new ones don't really know what used to be taught. And if a new one runs across an old teaching or someone mentions it they are already programmed to think that it was old light and dismiss it.
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  54

  I've decided to disassociate myself tonight

  by Dustin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the kingdom hall where i used to go has the theocratic ministry school and service meetings on tuesday.

  i have finally come to grips with my need to exit the jehovah's witnesses forever.

  i told my parents today that i'm leaving the jw religion behind forever.

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  TheListener

  Good luck Dustin. I'll be thinking about you.