TheListener

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Posts by TheListener

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  71

  Quick survey for apostates - please everyone just yes or no answer

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do the other witnesses with whom you associate/once associated in general know that you are an apostate or have apostate inclinations?

  the reason for the phrase "in general" is that it may be the case that one or two close friends know how you feel, but others in general do not.

  in my own case, one other witness knows, but no one else, so i would answer the survey question with a "no".

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  TheListener

  no
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  8

  For those of you waiting to tell your spouses about your "doubts"

  by Nosferatu in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  this post is for those who are wanting to fade, going through their "doubts" and wanting to tell their significant others about where they stand on the jw issue.. there is no doubt that the finest time in any male-female relationship is the dating stage.

  the both of you are full of infatuation for each other, and the excitement of just being together puts you in a pleasant mood.. now, years later, you have settled down, have children, and have fallen into many routines.

  it almost seems as if there's no time for the two of you to spend time with each other.. what i'm going to suggest is, before you tell your s/o how you're feeling about the "truth", try re-establishing those feelings that you once had before you take that major step.

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  TheListener

  In all seriousness this could take a long time to accomplish. I worked and faded for several years, all the while planning the work and working the plan. In the end I have an intact family, though not all out, but much more freedom for me and some of my children.

  Good advice Nosferatu.
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  15

  Can you pick out the Jaracz men? Why do you say so?

  by AuldSoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay, folks...we are down to 11. a vote of 2/3 requires 8 votes.. theodore jaracz.

  carey w. barber.

  john barr.

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  TheListener

  I spent some time poking around Ray Franz’s books and found some of the following information regarding the governing body members. Of course, the newest members aren’t discussed but I believe if they’ve been under the service department which is run by TJ and they’ve been appointed to the GB then it’s a safe bet that they’ll agree with him on most things.

  From CoC pages 387-388, “For nearly two decades, those collectively exercising the most powerful influence among the members of the Governing Body, have been Milton Henschel, Ted Jaracz and Lloyd Barry.” Footnote from page 388 “9 During my nine years on the Body it was unusual if anything these three members combined in favoring were not supported by sufficient members to control the result of a vote. Their positions were almost always unquestioningly supported by members Barr, Barber, Booth, Gangas, and Poetzinger. Lyman Swingle’s voice was always heard with respect and certainly carried considerable weight. Yet when issues arose, his viewpoint and position were often overruled if they did not coincide with that of the three members mentioned. Dan Sydlik at times showed a willingness to favor a position other than the traditional one, but his voice did not carry the same weight as that of the three mentioned, or, for that matter, of Lyman Swingle.”

  Barber

  From ISOCF pg.221 “Carey Barber spoke of the attitude of the elders who questioned the scriptural basis for the door-to-door work, saying that they ‘evidently do not feel it necessary to be zealous in this work.’ He referred to Acts 20:21 as showing that Paul had talked to persons about “repentance,” arguing that this indicated that his house-to-house work (referred to in verse 20) was done among strangers, not disciples.

  Jaracz

  From ISOCF pg. 182, discussing writing Bible commentaries, “For some reason certain members seemed to view it as a risky undertaking, and voiced strong reservations or negative feelings toward the project.” Footnote on page 182 discussing who was against preparing the book Commentary on the letter of James, “2 Among these were Milton Henschel, Ted Jaracz, Karl Klein and Fred Franz.”

  From ISOCF pg. 239, discussing the publication entitled Pay Attention to Yourselves and All the Flock the footnote says this “7 This textbook was prepared under the direction of the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. Among its members then were Albert Schroeder, Karl Klein, Leo Greenlees, Ted Jaracz.”

  From ISOCF on pgs. 266-269 Alternative Service is discussed. Ted Jaracz is shown arguing for the existing stand that denies publishers the opportunity to avail themselves of non-military alternative service. When the actual governing body vote is taken he abstains. The five GB members voting against removing the alternative service restrictions were Carey Barber, Fred Franz, Milton Henschel, William Jackson and Karl Klein.

  From CoC pg. 250 discussing the organization acknowledging the 1975 mistake, “In 1977, the subject again surfaced in a session. Though the same objections were raised, a motion passed that a statement should be included in a convention talk that Lloyd Barry was assigned to prepare. I understand that afterward Governing Body members Ted Jaracz and Milton Henschel talked with Lloyd about their feelings on the matter. Whatever the case, when the talk was prepared, no mention of 1975 was included. I recall asking Lloyd about this and his reply was that he had just not been able to make it fit in with his subject.”

  Dan Sydlik

  From CoC pg. 135 discussing alternative service. It shows that Dan Sydlik voted for relaxing the rules and allowing non-military alternative service. This vote was against Jaracz’ expressed opinion although Jaracz abstained from voting.
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  16

  Apostasy or Immorality?

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower used to say that most people got disfellowshipped for immorality.

  do you think this is still the case?

  it seems to me that i am hearing of as many people leaving over apostasy as over immorality, or am i just hanging out in the wrong circles?.

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  TheListener

  I think soon the society will define apostasy as porneai.

  Witnesses consider false religion a whore. Among other things witnesses consider porneai anything that would occur at a brothel. Hence mingling with false religion would be porneai.

  Viola!
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  17

  Daniel 11 has been fulfilled (king of the north and south)

  by sinis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  interesting article.

  comments?.

  http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/daniel11.htm

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  TheListener

  I'm sorry Leolaia that the posts of a few have caused you to refrain from posting your excellent research.

  Please remember that there are thousands who read your posts with great appreciation. That includes all the lurkers who may never post on jwd or even hardcore dubs who may feel they could refute your arguments if only the wanted to. Getting clear, well researched and supported information to witnesses and those of us who are doubting and leaving is invaluable.

  Please don't let one or two or even more if that be the case stop the flow of information to those who desperately need it. Your posts are well researched and insightful.
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  18

  Elder Conversation: Why Reform Won't Happen

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a nice conversation with an elder recently and it illustrates why reform of the organization is nearly impossible.

  this elder.

  is very aware of how bad things are becoming in congregations and he worries about his retirement.

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  TheListener

  In line with your point Metatron I also feel that reform is improbable.

  Since the new system is right around the corner reform isn't necessary. Witnesses quite often say that they don't see how this system or themselves could continue for another 5 or 10 years.

  They aren't thinking long term. If you're thinking short term there is no reason to reform, Jehovah will do it for you.

  If they start to make reforms, by becoming more mainstream, it means the organization itself realizes that it will be around for the long haul. Until then they'll just hobbling along until the new system arrives.
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  1

  Thank you Winston Smith :>D

  by darkuncle29 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thank you for posting...a while back...your da letter.

  for those who haven't seen it, here is the link:.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/62860/1.ashx.

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  TheListener

  Winston was awesome. If it wasn't for Winston posting his life experiences as they happened I wouldn't be out of the truth today.

  Good post darkuncle.
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  78

  SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT re: Riley Trust Tobacco Compan Stock & WTS

  by Oroborus21 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have no interest in pontificating on this matter which to me seems so straightforward.

  however, since i continue to see newbies and others periodically post in error stating that the wts "owns" tobacco company stock i believe that this should be corrected and the matter put to rest, hopefully for good.. .

  facts:.

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  TheListener

  Woe!!

  I didn't know the society owned tobacco stock and military company stock!!!

  Unbelievable!!

  just kidding
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  185

  The Watchtower Society killed my website

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you can thank the watchtower society for this.. here is an email from my hosting company:.

  unfortunately it appears your site/account was involved in violation of using copyrighted material involved with watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.".

  as a result of this abuse and activity, we will be unable to reinstate this account for any reason.. in addition, due to the nature of this abuse and the risk of transferring sensitive or illegal content if we were to provide you your files, we will be unable to provide with backups.. it is unfortunate that this has occurred, and we are aware that more than likely this was not your intent to host, however the fact remains it did exist and complaints were made.

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  TheListener

  Elsewhere, it says that your webhost can't provide backups of your files. Do you already have backups? Or did you lose some things?
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  18

  how long did you hang on to the language?

  by carla in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have noticed some who have recently left still hang on to 'unique' language of the society.

  how long did it take you stop using the buzz words and things like brother, sister, jah, and many others?

  and do you still recognize the word jehovah as a word for god?

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  TheListener

  As a fader I use it around friends and family.

  It's like speaking a different language.

  Around non-witnesses I can be "normal"