TheListener

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Posts by TheListener

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  70

  For Christians: Grace vs. Forgiveness

  by AuldSoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been trying to sort this out scripturally, and would like to get input from christians on how these two concepts differ and/or overlap.

  please be liberal with scriptures to support statements.

  i think there may be others who are trying to figure this out for themselves, too.

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  TheListener

  Grace allows us to be forgiven for anything we've done.

  It allows us to always make Jesus our foundation upon which we build (1 Cor. 3).

  Grace seems to unfair to us as humans (Jesus parable of the field workers: Luke 20)

  I have heard people say "well, I wouldn't have gotten so angry with that person if I saw some consideration on their part or some sign that they were sorry".

  But, in point of fact that statement puts us as a human in the judgement seat - and we don't get that seat, we don't get to judge. All we can do is apply forgiveness and grace the way that it has been applied to us.

  If the person we apply it to continues to sin then grace will be applied even more fully (Romans 5:20) as long as the individual isn't taking advantage of grace to sin purposefully.

  It can be frustrating and even unbearable to forgive someone for something very very wicked that has caused pain in our life. But, if we are to receive God's forgiveness then we must do it. (forgiving someone doesnt' mean we make them our best friend or have a relationship with them - it means to me that we let go of the anger and need to avenge ourselves on that person).

  When we ask ourselves, what would Jesus do, we usually come to the conclusion that he would forgive the person, perhaps with some timely advice. What we want to be careful of is that we don't judge someone and withhold our forgivenss based on our judgement.
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  45

  All current JWs: What is this?

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible students in 1918 numbered very few, fewer than 6,000. within three years, the number tripled.. the "intriguing subject" they proclaimed from 1918 through 1922 was "millions now living will never die.

  " upwards of 70,000 attended to hear this message proclaimed in germany alone.

  the talk series had a longer title, "the world has endedmillions now living will never die.

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  TheListener

  Why would God's representatives need to have wiggle words or wiggle room in the information they present?

  Is it because they are going beyond the things written? Is it because they are speculating?

  Either millions now living will never die or they will. Either the ancient worthies will come back in 1925 or they won't. etc etc.

  If any of those statements need wiggle room then they do not come from God, but from regular people.
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  35

  KM 09/07

  by Philippus79 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know or have a scan of the km 09/07.

  in the german edition the question is raised and answered if the "faithful and discreet slaves" encourages biblestudy groups who study "deeper" topics.

  obviously the answer is "no" don't do that the slaves feeds you more than enough.. i could do with an english copy.

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  TheListener

  Call me Thomas.

  I'll believe it when I see the scan or see my wife's Sept. KM when they get passed out.
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  61

  Sophistry Lessons—JW Baptismal Prerequisites

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (definition).

  in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

  is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

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  TheListener

  I've been doing a lot of reading on this lately.

  I have even broke out my insight books, reasoning, what does the bible teach books to brush up on the WTS arguments. OMG they are just so weak.

  Basically they take examples from obviously baptized individuals and apply it to non-baptized people. Or they don't even back it up with scriptures; they just use circular logic to make is a must-do for baptism.

  Like attending meetings. Hebrews says we shouldn't neglect meeting together and they take that to mean when/how/where/what/who and that you must do it to qualify for baptism - how else could you say you learned about God? Certainly not from prayer and the HS.
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  50

  Shammatta—"Disfellowshipping" Jewish Style

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 24:48-51 48 but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "my master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.

  there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.. insight on the scriptures, volume 1, p. 787, expelling.

  finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation.

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  TheListener

  Would you consider it a fair statement that criticism of the organization does not equate to criticism of the average JW?

  I would.

  I can dislike apple pie, but like apples. ???
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  16

  Are you still lurking? Why not introduce yourself? It's very liberating!

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  TheListener

  Slowly I raise my head....look around the thread....and speak...."Lurker here"....down I go submerged once again into the mire of my own life...
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  19

  An Update....

  by R.F. in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello all, just wanted to fill you in on the situation with my mother.. she's doing good now after having the emergency surgery last week.

  we're hoping that she can come home in a couple days.

  her blood counts are still low but they have risen since the surgery.

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  TheListener

  Hang in there R.F.

  We're here to support you the best we can.
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  50

  Shammatta—"Disfellowshipping" Jewish Style

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 24:48-51 48 but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "my master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.

  there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.. insight on the scriptures, volume 1, p. 787, expelling.

  finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation.

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  TheListener

  I haven't read all the posts yet, but I wanted to get this out there:

  When I was a bethelite there was a common expression for witnesses who were out in the field and not at bethel. Anyone remember it?

  It was "worldly witness" - sometimes this term was used appreciatively, sometimes in a derogatory fashion. Usage depended upon the situation.

  How many of us have heard this "Hi, this is my friend so and so, he's an elder (or pioneer, or ministerial servant, or bethelite)" Titles and positions mean everything. They equal spirituality.
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  26

  "Jehovah ALWAYS has worked through ONE organization!"

  by Dagney in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many times have we heard this?.

  i would like to know if any of you have any good arguements refuting this.

  my brain is fried from two weeks of "fencing" with jw's.

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  TheListener

  Auld Soul,

  I won't disagree with your line of reasoning , however, it appears to me from reading Exodus Ch. 18 that Jethro had become a believer in the God of Moses prior to making his organizational recommendation.

  Exodus 18:9 Jethro was delighted to hear about all the good things the LORD had done for Israel in rescuing them from the hand of the Egyptians. 10 He said, "Praise be to the LORD, who rescued you from the hand of the Egyptians and of Pharaoh, and who rescued the people from the hand of the Egyptians. 11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly." 12 Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, brought a burnt offering and other sacrifices to God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses' father-in-law in the presence of God.

  It was after these events that Jethro watch Moses and provided his suggestion.

  Exodus 18: 13 The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. 14 When his father-in-law saw all that Moses was doing for the people, he said, "What is this you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge, while all these people stand around you from morning till evening?"

  15 Moses answered him, "Because the people come to me to seek God's will. 16 Whenever they have a dispute, it is brought to me, and I decide between the parties and inform them of God's decrees and laws."

  17 Moses' father-in-law replied, "What you are doing is not good. 18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone. 19 Listen now to me and I will give you some advice, and may God be with you.

  I don't see where Jethro was saying that God wasn't able to accomplish his purposes but rather it sounds as if Jethro is saying that Moses wasn't handling his responsibilities correctly or judiciously. Perhaps Jethro already knew of Moses penchant for pride?
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  61

  Sophistry Lessons—JW Baptismal Prerequisites

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (definition).

  in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

  is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

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  TheListener

  BTT