Hello Exjwshell, welcome to the board. And like big dog said earlier, dont worry you will feel at home real soon. I too was a lurker on this board for a year and a half before finally joining in. Hope to hear more from you soon on the posts.
Ticker
Ticker
JoinedPosts by Ticker
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38
Hi Everyone...I'm New
by exjwshell injust wanted to say hello to everyone on this forum.
i've "lurked" for quite some time, thought it was time make my first post.
my story is long and boring and too complicated to remember so the short version is this:.
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Do you want to go on radio?
by mouthy in.
i have started a new thread because i screwed the other one up( sorry).
but the producer wants to know if any others would like to go on the radio( internet?
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Ticker
Thanks Mouthy, I appreciate your post and thoughts. Yes it is one of the most wonderful feelings in the world to be able to think independantly and freely. Its rather quite exciting to be able to venture into the bible unhindered and it seems like a whole new book to me rather then one that previously was closed and only used to expound pressure to conform. It also is very comforting to discover that their are many others who are loving and kind as yourself, as expressed through your posts. It really opened my eyes that love is not exclusive to the watchtower and in actuallity it is sadly lacking in the organization.
And God bless you too sister, in the real truth revealed soley through Jesus and not man.
Undeserved kindness, haha that made me laugh. Yes gotta love that rewording and muffling of meaning. I too prefer the term grace, I think it even sounds much more pleasant and conveys a greater meaning of love.
Ticker
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A little more about me
by Ticker inhello everyone, you have probably read some of my posts but i wish to tell a little more about my story, not all of it but just to give a mindset of where i stand and how i feel.. i had been a witness since childhood as i had been indoctrinated at a very young age by a zealous grandmother who had devoted her life to an organization.
like i had stated before i have come to realize she was serving a image of god created for her consumption by imperfect men, but none the less i know she meant well in her actions.
i have always had a good heart toword others and god, and though at times it troubles me to think of how i used to carry the jw mindset of judging others viewpoints and faith, not intentionally but because of being molded into such a form through misdirected thinking.
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Ticker
Hello everyone, you have probably read some of my posts but I wish to tell a little more about my story, not all of it but just to give a mindset of where I stand and how I feel.
I had been a witness since childhood as I had been indoctrinated at a very young age by a zealous grandmother who had devoted her life to an organization. Like I had stated before I have come to realize she was serving a image of god created for her consumption by imperfect men, but none the less I know she meant well in her actions. I have always had a good heart toword others and God, and though at times it troubles me to think of how I used to carry the JW mindset of judging others viewpoints and faith, not intentionally but because of being molded into such a form through misdirected thinking. I was not a "power monger" or cold toword others and eventually even within the confines of the organization began to readjust my own thinking toword others, heavily due to Jesus exemplified approach toword such ones. I remember reading and meditating on the gospels as a witness and how they moved me, how such love and understanding was shown even toword the sinful. I had strived very hard to display such an attitude even though others around me did not share the same feeling.
I remember times when I would talk to the disfellowshiped and encourage them, though councelled against doing so. I'll never forget how it felt good to acknowledge them and that I had not judged them as unworthy. I have also had the pleasure of showing love toword ones when they were disfellowshiped even though previously they had not been as considerate toword me in my times of trouble. I recall a service meeting and their was one brother who was disfellowshiped sitting in the back with no literature. We were handing out kindom ministry's to thoese who had for whatever reason not brought theirs along. No one had taken the consideration or effort to give this person a ministry because of his status. I felt obligated to break that mold, I felt it was more loving to care for his needs and to make him feel part of the brotherhood then to shun and ignore. I smiled at him, said "here you go brother" and handed him a kingdom ministry, of course this action most likely contributed to my eventual pressure from the elder body. I was more liberal then most I suppose, our congregation at the time had a very domineering presiding overseer, and felt very rigid and controlled. One couple had expressed this to me in conversation as to why they had some displeasure in meeting attendance, I too could see it and understood thier feelings. I remember a remark from one sister after visiting with this stated couple(I greatly enjoyed their company even though they might not have met the status qoue) "how do you know them?", another brother even stated "they displayed a bad attitude and thats what held them back!" I could not agree with these statements and had defended the couple as being nothing more then good honest kind people who had legitimate claims of pain. I had at this time also even extended love toword ones who were viewed as apostate, I still said hello and conversated with them. Although I realize now I had maybe not been the most at ease because of watchtower teaching but I did not view them in the same light. I didnt see them as a "label" but as a person, who was earnest in their desire to serve god, and had either been heavily hurt or cast away by injustice in the congregation. Little did I know 5 years later I too would experience this side of the coin as it quickly flipped on me.
Another leading factor to my eventual regular elder room visits was due to children, I had went against the popular opinion that now was not the time for children.(in fact I believe we were only one of two family's with any children) I had even earnestly tried to show them from scriputure that both God and Jesus loved children and would never view them in this light. This did not go over smoothly especially with the PO, as his daughter had wanted children but due no doubt to congregation pressure had chosen to stay childless. She was very emotional about it and it gave a sence of discomfort not only to me and my wife but probably to her father. It was not long after this and coupled with pherhaps the other factors that the fist was coming down. Quite rapidly my priveledges were stripped only being able to pioneer, as at the time I was self employed and work was slow. I would spend 14 hour days in service in remote territory, dragging along who ever would go with me. I still feel good about some of thoese memorys because it was the most relaxed and undogmatic service I had ever had in my life. I was able to use Gods word more and have more of a sence of ease, instead of trying to go with a mission of making witnesses, I went with a mission of just discussing beliefs in a relaxed fashion. I did not pressure people to conform, I did not force opinion on them, rather i just tried to encourage bible reading as I knew they did not get enough contact for regular magazine dispursal. All in all I still value that experience in some sence because it drew me even closer to the word of god and to him personally. I remember even trying to arrange for a community presentation of our beliefs with a council member of that town, pherhaps I was going a bit far in this respect, but at the time I felt it was not a wrong thing as it would be highten the clarity of who we were. I had mentioned this too the PO when I arrived back, he never said nothing but had quickly brought that discussion to an end. I knew that pherhaps in his mind I was out of line in not following society instruction to a "T".
I even recolect a number of years ago asking the Circuit overseer at the time to accompany me on a study, I had several at the time and had mentioned to him about one who was a bit mentally challenged but I still cared enough to take time for him, the CO had asked me then directly "This is not the one we will be studying with is it?" Thoese words just never sounded right to me, how could one be judged as a waste of time due to a mental imbalance. Was not Jesus invitation to "come" open to them? Another time on the way to a meeting we had caught a ride with the PO and his wife(due to lack of funds for fuel) and I had mentioned my joy in pioneering and this remote territory. She coldly said and I still hear her words to this day "We knew a brother who used to put in 12 hour days and now he's out of the truth."
It just rapidly got worse and worse for me and my wife, emotionally I couldnt handle what I felt as rejection, meetings were becoming harder and harder to attend. One meeting me and my wife were sitting in about the third row from the front and this elder was giving a discussion from the platfrom about possibly building a new kingdom hall. Our young child started to whale a bit and we knew what that meant, get her downstairs a soon as possible! We had been previously warned about such causing of interuption. (This is in part as to why we felt such discomfort and a walking on eggshells at the meetings.) I looked at my wife and seen her getting ready to leave with our baby knowing others were feeling annoyed with the commotion. All of a sudden the speaker stopped, I looked up and seen the PO stepped away from the platform with a great look of anger on his face. My wife ran downstairs and I felt about 2 inches high in my chair, so I soon also accomponied her. I found her crying and sisters were their trying to justify what had happened. To say the least it hurt and it hurt deeply because we were already under alot of emotional stress due to various factors within the congregation. This coming from the same man who had earlier been very supportive of my ministry and had even expressed "dont worry about money we'll look after you."(meaning god would provide I believe) Well with all this and the fact that financially I was starving and facing pressure from creditors, grateful even if someone would give me a little gas money for service, I started discussing with my wife as to what I should do.
I realized the way things with the elders were heading because of past experience, another pioneer brother years earlier was repeatedly flogged with councel before the congregation until it was to the point of leave or be difellowshiped. He could do nothing right and every comment he made was taken as attack toword the elders, I personally witnessed this event, when he left to take a job in a different area his family stayed to sell the home. While he was gone their attention was now directed toword his wife, which I never understood. This man I believe still is a witness and even though removed as a pioneer continued to put in the hours. I was heading in the same direction and so could forsee my consequences, it was leave or be done away with. I left for a different area and cant help but remember the delight of one elder when he heard, he wanted my letter to the new congregation done promptly.(I still often wonder why, if he had maybe wanted me gone that bad or had maybe reasoned it was best) Either way I moved and tried to carry on, but again children became an issue with the new congregation.
We were often uninvolved with activities(not of our choice but not always being thought of or invited) and when we were, often faced being exiled anyway.(one time we were asked out for supper with two other couples in the new congregation, after supper the men grouped up and went off by themselves talking and preparing meeting parts, the two women likewise, and their we sat alone in thier house in the living room. It didnt take long and I told my wife, "lets go were leaving." They never even realized we had left and never made mention of the event again. All this coupled with the dogmatism, control, definate lack of true compassion and love, justification instead of apology, and straight forward rudeness led to my becoming inactive and eventually coming to a realization of the society. In all fairness I will state that the mentioned PO did apologize 5 years later for his conduct but only after pressure from a fellow member who heard my story, and this came through a brief answering machine message. Either way I do forgive this man for his cold heartedness but it does not erase all the pain.
I have not mentioned all of my events as their are many more and far worse but I have chose to highlight some of what I went through. I too do not feel I am special as I realize this happens everyday to ones in the organization but are the main points that led to my distancing from the organization. I have also went through spyings by judicial commitees and stalking, phonecalls, even till 2 am in the moring, even cross examination by a circuit overseer, but what hurt me the most was the lack of compassion and love, true love.
I have nothing to hide and if someone monitoring this site for whatever means identifies me from the stated events then they will know I have not added to the story. If they would see fit to disfellowship or disassociate me over telling my side, let them do so as I do not fear man, but I fear god. I do not need thier support or hinderance in my relationship with god and I am not afraid to show them my love for god and christ apart from an organization. I am not bitter either toword the organization,body, or its members but rather pray that maybe they may find understanding and that God will subject them to humility and yet forgiveness for their wrongs if he would deem it fit. I believe their are loving people in the organization but their love is subject to a filter of principles not found in the bible, others are their for power or prestige, others family, others just earnest seekers of the bible caught in a treadmill. I only ever tried to follow an example set 2000 years previous by our head, Christ, and in doing so maybe I experienced a small taste of the persecution he endured. In this I take some comfort knowing that I never betrayed my Lord or my heavenly father, I only ever tried to follow his example of love and I wil continue to do such leaving my matter in his loving hands of mercy. As I come to these conclusions I realize my time as a witness is concluded and has been for a period, but I still will extend love to these ones even if not returned, just a Jesus had shown me through his accounts.
Ticker
P.S. Thank you for reading, It may be choppy but its not easy to bring back thoese emotions of hurt in an orderly manner and I wish not to demean the mentioned persons but only to show what situation I had been involved in. I dont hold them totally responsible for what occured but feel we were all at one time caught up in this loop of eliteness and misguidance. A spirit that eminates from a harsh structure carrying unswaying force not motivated in love.
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Do you want to go on radio?
by mouthy in.
i have started a new thread because i screwed the other one up( sorry).
but the producer wants to know if any others would like to go on the radio( internet?
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Ticker
I wanted to comment as I feel that was a very well made point.
" That is all I care about STOPPING the slavery.... "
I was treated very unloving by an organization I spent my life believing in, and thought I was accomplishing God's purpose through ministry only to be discarded at a whim. I remember praying and crying out to God as I drove back from a day of pioneering remote territory, I could not understand why I was being submitted to such cruel actions and beratement from the elder body. Of course I realize now why even though I had a good heart toword God, though maybe misguided but a generally loving attitude of wanting to serve him, I was fronted by their attacks which carried no merit or evidence of any wrong. Nor could they point to a scripture of counsel because I had not wronged in any manner of conduct nor toword any other. I loved the people in the congregation no matter who they were, disfellowshiped or not, and as I was told this had probably not sat well with some. I had a habit of being warm to all whether they were regular attenders or not and would go and visit such ones. I found them not to be evil or weak but merely tired of dogma and rules. Of course their were other factors as well but of which were petty and hurt me deeply. I could no longer emotionally feel the same toword the organization so deeply cut to the heart by this and various other incidents in which I had witnessed great hypocrisy by wrongful treatment of not only myself but many others.
I now know that we have one master the Christ, and I too wish the slavery would stop. Sometimes I feel maybe it was God's way of getting me out, it took pain but it also cleared my thinking, in which I was finally able to realize just who I had been serving for years. I do wish too that my friends I had to leave behind would come out of slavery, I still hope they will. I no longer feel any resentment or bitterness toword any who's actions led to my leaving, in fact somehow I count it as a blessing in disguise. I am not wanting to destroy any human organization or blaspheme it, but only to show the truth God sets forth. If in this course the truth of his word exposes their faulty reasoning it is not due to my revenging myself, it is God exposing them through the enlightenment of his word. I have helped 3 out of slavery to man and almost a fourth, and not by seeking them out in any means, or to deprogram, but merely out of love that their concience should be free toword God. I could not let myself in good conscience stay silent when they expressed in coversation a feeling of divine condemnation due to a misguided interpretation of scripture. If I would merit punishment for such by God then I would accept it, but I feel strongly that God is slowly becoming much more of a figurehead in my life through a personal relationship, then could ever be accomplished as a organized group.
Ticker
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Mass. High Court Makes Landmark Child Abuse Ruling--JW
by blondie inhttp://www.metrowestdailynews.com/localregional/view.bg?articleid=91413&format=text
high court makes landmark church abuse ruling.
by michael kunzelman / associated press.
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Ticker
What exactly will be the ramifications toword headquarters with such a precident in court? Is the legal corporation of JW's also affected or is it simply on a local level with the elders. I think its still an impressive start and the ball has to start rolling somewhere, at least someone is accountable now. The thing I fear is that the blame will all be placed on the elders and focused away from the Watchtower corporations and body's. The public wont buy that explanation but sadly I think the r&f will. Also is this strictly effect the US laws or does it set as an example internationally for dealings with such matters in other countries?
Very interesting events anyway, thanks for posting blondie.
Ticker
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Australian Supreme Court Orders Blood Transfusion
by Kenneson in.
the australian medical association applauds a supreme court decision that allows a perth hospital to give a blood transfusion to a 15-year old jehovah's witness, despite his family's wishes.. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12302762-1245,00.html
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Ticker
I also agree Gumby, I think their needs to be an accounting for error and dishounor. It will probably ever fail to come though because of the obvious lack of humility within the body. They continue to damage peoples spirituality, emotion, and individuality of concience by forcing them to obey a set standard that has proven ineficient. A standard of dogmatism they have no divine authortiy to posses by any sound reason of scripture. It is all composed of manipulation, presumption, and a elite attitude of not being accountable for wrongs committed. Whether or not they feel what they put forth is right or wrong, it is unscriptural to force that assumption upon others. I feel personally they should humbly apologize, face their actions at whatever personal costs, and dissolve their level of totallitarian control.
I doubt this will ever happen without time forcing them to, so a true apology will possibly never come. Either way I do wish that people would open their eyes and actually think about what they read, instead of blindly putting faith in an organization above faith in god.
Ticker
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It Just Ain't Fair
by HadEnuf indear concerned forum posters:
i feel at this time, in my long and varied career here at the forum, i must protest to the exalted and respected administator of this site, that a problem does exist in it's "labeling" of posters.
this concerns the titles that are given to posters when they reach a certain amount of posts.
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Ticker
Oh oh not some more new light, but this time from the board administration. lmao Now the titles will be according to the chronological order of membership from the previous old light where ones posts were counted. Haha j/k
To me I dont look at titles either and whether you are jedi or supreme one or newbie, I measure your merit by the thoughts and quality of each and every post, not merely by title. As i would expect any other to do likewise with me. Just my 2 cents.
Ticker
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What were u taught in Bible study that changed after being baptized?
by hubert ini want to make up a list.
some things that i was told personally, even though i am not a j.w., are... me: "do j.w.
's shun people"?
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Ticker
How about this one, one that personally got my goat after. When I was studying I always alluded that the bible was wrote for every person and that its messaged was individually addressed to everyone. After im hooked in I find out that the bible isnt really for me but it was intended for the 144,000, a statement i could never accept and never did accept. This was one view of theirs i always discarded personally.
Another thing I was not told about was the level of control that existed over your life by a totallitarian society. I found that out too soon enough after dipping in the drink. I was always led to believe that JWs were pioneers of bible freedom and then I find out thier actually masters lording it over others faith.
Love was supposed to be the identifying mark also and I seen a clear lack of evidence of unconditional love within the congregation. Of course when your new they put on a mask of lovebombing and a picture that all is perfect within the confides of the watchtower. Then I find out after its love is really conditioned only because they are forced to put forward and outward appearance of unity. I have never been a member of another church and would probably expect similar finds too but, the people in the JW religion always were clicky, gossiping, and some just downright rude and intolerable to others.
And probably the biggest one for me was not being told about all the failed phrophecy and prediction before hand. I was led to believe that the witnesses remained virtually unchanged in doctrine since their beginning. All of this should have been layed on the table and exposed for a fair and complete analysis of whether or not they were what they said they were. They were quick to expose the faults of other religions but so desperatly attempted to seal over, silence, and whitewash all their past and current shortcomings.
Ticker
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Faithfull to the end
by Ticker inmy grandma was a devout jw most of her life, and when i mean devout i mean 24-7 preaching constantly to anyone especially family.
i have her to thank for my indoctrination as a child, but i realize she was merely indoctrinated herself.
her personality traits led to her being such a zealot for the watchtower, so i have no bitterness toword her, as she has passed on a few years ago.
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Ticker
Exactly as i thought, if you got to live for all eternity surrounded by the wonderful witness folk and having this dogmatic governing body ruling from heaven, while we all sing kindgom melodies and study with resurected ones. Also dont forget how we have to be extra loving(basically meaning two faced) to our fellow bros and sis's for all eternity. blah that makes me wanna hurl Hell give me armageddon over that anyday. lol I wouldnt want to live forever according to the watchtower, way too damb boring for me.
Ticker
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Hate leaving my family behind.
by Big Dog inafter lurking about for a while i finally decided to join the board.
i have never done anything like this and was amazed at how stressful it was to sign up and press the return key to join up and actually post something.
just a quick bio: 41 year old lawyer who was raised a jw but had the good sense to never get baptized.
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Ticker
Hello Big Dog,
glad you found your way here. I have no immediate family in the org anymore but do have some a few cousins and uncle in it. I know it sucks to think that ties are severed when you leave, but as already said its them that sever the ties not us who choose to live in freedom.
Ticker