Posts by ithinkisee

14

Has anyone stuck with it despite all of this?

by Cass in

hi all, i know this must have already been discussed, but i'm just wondering if there is anyone here who has just kept going to meetings and the rest of it, just so that they don't lose their family?

thanks in anticipation of a response

ithinkisee

There are elders on this messageboard that have been here for years. They grin and bear it because they can't bear the thought of losing their family.

Some of the elders on this board are on service committees, conduct WT studies, etc.

-ithinkisee

7

Katrina disaster relief one of the Society's biggest moneymakers?

by ithinkisee in

i wrote this almost two years ago (link).

this was before katrina hit new orleans:.

.and i just thought they were so on top of disaster relief around the world because they cared.. .

ithinkisee

I wrote this almost two years ago (link). This was before KATRINA hit New Orleans:

. . . .and I just thought they were SO on top of disaster relief around the world because they cared.

But when I heard this a lightbulb went off in my head:

We just had our CO visit, and our CO is THE GUY that was the head of Hurricane Relief in Punta Gorda, Florida. This was when Florida was hit by 4 or 5 hurricanes in a matter of months.

On two specific occasions in his Sunday post-WT talk he made it clear that - even though it wasn't required - that it was expected that people would donate their insurance check to the Society.

He worked it in like this (I'm quoting from memory):

". . and when the repairs were done the family was so thankful and were thanking us over and over again as they were writing out their check to the Society for the insurance amount - in fact - I don't really know ANYBODY who hasn't donated their Insurance check to the Society. . . ." (and then continues on with the great work the Hurricane Relief People are doing).
He reiterated it again at the end of his talk.

He even went on to encourage the brothers NOT to use worldly companies because there was a likely chance they would be scammed or swindled.

The stats were that over 1400 WT Families needed new roofs - and that was just roofs. There was lots of other families with just property damages, water damages, structural damages, etc.

My thoughts is that if someone gets a $7k or $10k check (some got even more - some luxury houses had six-figure claims) and then pays for the roofing supplies and donates the remainder to the Society. . . .you do the math.

Even on the conservative side it's ALOT of money.

Even if the Society pays for a handful of people who DON'T have insurance, and builds their roof outright. . . .it doesn't matter. . .a grand or two for the supplies from the millions they are collecting is not a big deal.

- ithinkisee

This was one of the first posts I ever wrote two years ago. This was well BEFORE Katrina.

Some questions:

Did anyone have any similar experiences with the Circuit Overseers in Louisiana? Hear similar things from the platforms?
Has anyone else tried pointing this scheme out to other publishers?
Are there any other religions that send elders around in groups of two reading scriptures to solicit donations?

-ithinkisee

9

where does their money come from??

by luffy in

ive read a number of times about the millions the watchtower are raking in tax free..since ive been led to believe that people are not charged for their magazines could somebody clarify this and explain where all this money comes from?

ithinkisee

luffy,

R&F= Rank and File (the average publisher)

9

where does their money come from??

by luffy in

ive read a number of times about the millions the watchtower are raking in tax free..since ive been led to believe that people are not charged for their magazines could somebody clarify this and explain where all this money comes from?

ithinkisee

They are also geniuses at real estate.

Rumor has it they pretty much own certain precious metal and diamond markets in some European countries. Though I have yet to see proof other than some hearsay and coincidences.

Now that the business aspect of the society has been broken off from the Governing Body, there really is no accounting - even from the Governing Body - where donations are going and what is being done with the money they make from their investments.

The Governing Body is just an "aspect" of the Society. In a way they have made the Governing Body powerless again (pre-1970's) and given it back to the few at the top that control the purse strings. That's smart I guess - that way an honest GB member can't pull another "Ray Franz".

-ithinkisee

60

What has happened to America? Stop Bush, Stop The Ignorance.

by Morocco in

jw
friends

i'm pissed today and i'm about to let it out.

i hope nobody gets offended because these are only opinions.

is anyone else outraged by our president?

ithinkisee

Thanks Morocco

60

What has happened to America? Stop Bush, Stop The Ignorance.

by Morocco in

jw
friends

i'm pissed today and i'm about to let it out.

i hope nobody gets offended because these are only opinions.

is anyone else outraged by our president?

ithinkisee

Forscher said:
To say Bush lied [regarding Iraw WMD's etc) shows a lack of serious research into the matter.

Not true. Pretty much everyone not of a Conservative stripe was saying the evidence was deeply flawed, circumstantial, and could not be verified. Colin Powell has even admitted he knew some of the information was wrong going into it. Sounds to me like COlin Powell had a "Crisis of Conscience". Unfortunately he chose to toe the party line. At that time though, the patiotism of people was questioned when they complained. I'll get quotes from that period if you like?

Forscher said:
Excuse me? I guess you don't consider $25,000 payments to the families of every suicide bomber who attacked our ally, Israel, a connection with the war on terror.

No one is saying Saddam isn't a sick and brutal dictator (er ... was). But the reasons we Americans were given for going to war in Iraq were purely related to 9/11. We were going there because of connections to Osama. Nothing was mentioned about $25000 payments to families as a reason to go to war with Iraq at the time. It was only after the evidence scam was clear to the American people that the extra stuff started coming out. And when people complained about the lack of evidence the LImbaughs and Hannity's of the world started calling the people who complained "Saddam Hussen lovers".

Forscher said:
They {the liberal media] are not showing the entire picture because they want the very pull-out and impeachment you are calling for.

I will agree with this. Bush got us into a very ugly situation in Iraq. However, I don't believe the media is liberally biased. The liberals complain about the misinformation doled out by the mainstream news just as much as conservatives. I believe people on BOTH sides know not to believe what they hear just because it is on a major network (including FOx News). If the media is liberally biased, why aren't they running stories every night about how they Taliban has taken over in Afghanistan? Why didn't they ask the tough questions BEFORE we went into Iraq? (The liberal media has actually apologized many times now for not asking tougher questions at the time. Of course that is when people's patriotism was being questioned for - asking questions.)

Forscher said:
And my opinon is that you have spent too much time on liberal blogs and come to the opinion they wanted you to, the wrong one.

The same could be said of you. I listen to Rush limbaugh and Hannity several times per week and it sounds like you are coming to the opinion they (and FOX News) want you to.

Forscher said:
History shoiws that the only solution to a group like Al Qaeda is to destroy them, period.

History shows that will not happen. Rome tried to do that with Christians. It only made them stronger. Rome also kept extending it's influence until they became a big shell - an illusion of greatness that was inherently empty inside. History shows just the opposite of what you suggest. I've heard some conservatives try and use the "piracy theory" for destroying them, but that will just not work. Pirates weren't inherently religious nutballs - most Christians and Muslims are. The more they are persecuted, the more they fight back. I know all the conservatives say we CANNOT lose. The problem is we can't win either. We can't.

Ultimately I am sure the Limbaughs and Hannitys will blame liberals for the eventual embarrassing failures in the Middle East. Mark my words - they will. They've already been laying the groundwork for it if you read between the lines.
========================
The solution should have been to leave Iraq be for the time being and focus on other places like Afghanistan, N Korea, and others. Maybe Iraq was supposed to just be a training ground for the real tough battles? If so that is pretty scary.

There were people screaming that Iraq will go horribly wrong if we take our eyes of Afghanistan and invade Iraq and just take it over. Critics said our military couldn't handle the load of policing the whole world. We were assured it could, and they always made sure those peoples' patriotism was questioned as well. These were many of the same people that questioned the evidence for so-called WMD's etc.

The Taliban are already taking control of Afghanistan again. I recently read a news piece that said a school teacher was killed by four taliban members. A rope was tied to each of his legs and the other end of each rope was tied to a separate motorcycle. He was ripped apart four ways. Why? Because he was teaching 8th grade girls algebra.

If the media was really SO CONTROLLED by the liberals, then Afghanistan being overrun by Taliban should be on every station every day of the week. To me that would anger people on both sides. But it's not on the news! Where's my liberal media?

==========================
I wanted to sign up for the military and go kick some Afghani ass after the Twin Towers fell. I was all for it. Nowadays some of my standards are a little different, but at the time I was ready.

However, if we can't even take over a weak country like Iraq (with antiquated tanks and planes), what makes us think we can take on rich, strong and well-trained countries like Iran, North Korea or whomever else we might choose to make a pre-emptive strike on?

And for the record, I was initially glad we had a good ole overcompensating cocksure Texan that seemed to mean what he said (despite his record amounts of vacation time prior to 9/11)when we went into Afghanistan. After I began learning about his past and his questionable methods of winning public office I became greatly embarrased that I was so apathetic about the 2000 elections.

-ithinkisee

17

Harry Potter? Are witnesses told not to read it????

by annalice in

jw
friends

i have not been to a meeting for some years now so i would not know if it has been said ,but have the witnesses actually been told straight out not to read the harry potter books?

i ask this because my in-laws have seen me reading them and now think i am into evil stuff because i have them .

so is it just them or is this what is now taught in the orginization?

ithinkisee

A few years ago all the elders in the surrounding congregations came back from the "Elder's School" repeating ad nauseum how Harry Potter was super bad. That the SOciety did not approve of it at all.

Of course they all went and saw the LOTR movies when they came out.

This is a classic example of how they will never print it in a publication, but they will make known that it is an 'unwritten rule' to people on the inside.

Coincidentally, this is one of the primary traits of cults - groups that have one set of rules they 'portray' to outsiders (i.e. "We can't TELL you what to do. Some Witnesses simply choose not to watch it because they might object to some content.") and another set of rules once you are on the inside (i.e. "Don't watch it. It's demonized and you will lose privileges.")

17

Stealing the publisher's card - how beneficial? how successful?

by Inquisitor in

gee... the title almost sounds like a wts publication doesn't it?

anyway, i remember how some of you guys talk of (and actually do) making your publisher cards magically disappear.

two questions:.

ithinkisee

We were some of those people - FreedomLoverr and I. You can read about it here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/106591/1.ashx

On the off-chance you want to fade somewhat quietly it makes sense to pretend to have them mailed to a new congregation. (There are people on this messageboard who are elders that can call and sound elder-like and pose as your new secretary) because it essentially means you no longer exist to them.

If you leave quietly and your cards are no longer there it means that the Circuit Overseer won't come through asking why the cards haven't been sent out yet. It keeps you off the radar by not being mentioned.

Nothing can ultimately stop an elder from tracking you down and making a lesson out of you - but there's nothing wrong with making it harder for them to follow through.

As long as you moved away and don't generally seem a threat to the congregation you moved from, they'll likely leave you alone.

-ithinkisee

22

Did you say "I love you?"

by serendipity in

i grew up in an emotionally constipated family.

my parents didn't hug us or tell us they loved us.

they were slightly affectionate with each other, but i don't think i ever heard them express their love for each other, in front of us kids.

ithinkisee

As my mom began to realize we were leaving the JWs last year, she began using "I Love You" to excess. As many of you know, it wasn't meant as a way to express genuine love. Although I don't doubt she really loves me on some level, the "I Love You's" of the past year were primarily meant as a way to induce guilt. Each "I Love You" was meant to prick at my conscience. She used "I Love You" as a weapon to combat my desire to leave the JWs.

She also did this when I was a child. The guilt was ingrained at an early age. "I love you" became empty. My choices had nothing to do with me but everything to do with her and my loyalty to her. It wasn't until later in life did I begin to understand the true meaning of I love you, and even more so as we had our own children. Nowadays when I say "I love you" to someone, I imagine myself saying it to them in other - less ideal - situations. Could I still say I love you to my wife if for some reason we split up? Could I still say I love you if one of my children grew up and told me they were gay (or anything else that still carries a social stigma of sorts)? Could I still say I love you if my child chose a path that wasn't one I would have chosen for them?

Usually that ends up pointing out where I need to work on some internal things.

I'm still not a master at showing and giving love, but asking myself those questions helps me move forward at least.

-ithinkisee

39

God's Organization Has Needed Adjusting

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

gods organization has needed adjusting defending the watchtower, many jehovahs witnesses.

point-out the changes that have taken place are nothing more than .

adjustments in understanding.

ithinkisee

If this were true (i.e. GOd's Organization has needed adjusting) then we should all be Catholic.

After all, that was the first "Organization" that God used after Christ right? I mean he used the Catholic Church to set doctrine and to actually compile the Bible. If I'm not mistaken, the New Testament was having books added and removed from it (via the Catholic Church) for over THREE HUNDRED YEARS until it resembled the book we have today.

Today, at Assemblies and from CO visits we are told to "stick with the chosen organization even if what the organization is doing seems wrong, because - after all - it is the chosen Organization." Furthermore, the Society says that God will adjust matters in his own time, so just be patient and stick with the Organization.

But if that is the case, we should have stuck with the Catholic Church - no matter how wrong they seemed to be. Because after all - Jehovah "adjusts things in his own time".

-ithinkisee