have you any experience of families whose sons have gone off to bethel and then decided to not have any more contact with their family and jws at all very soon after returning?.
i ask this question because i know of two families where this has been the case.. the first family had three sons who one after the other went to the london bether to 'serve' within a couple of years of eachother.. after three years there all three returned home completely different people.
they then left home, left dub land, two married non jws and another lives with his girlfriend.
Anyone who climbs the organisational ladder gathers higher reasons to leave and higher reasons to stay. Characters and circumstances make the difference.
This statement is so true it gives me goosebumps. It fits my experience at Bethel to a tee ... and is true based on my experience with others who have left ... or would secretly like to leave.
-ithinkisee
the october the 1st watchtower has interesting views on the education of jw children.. page 30, in which one jw explains how he ended up in ft service says:.
'we did not associate with our school mates but only with those in the congregation who had good spiritual habits.'.
interesting as this shows judgmentalism and criticism 'even' in the jw congregation.. then on page 31 it explains how parents must offer their children, as early as possible, proper guidance in their choice of school subjects and vocation goals.. 'rather than choose academic subjects that are geared toward a university education, parents and children need to consider courses that are useful in pursuing a theocratic career.'.
USA TODAY QUOTE:
However, going to a college is an utter waste of time for those students who have emerged from high school neither literate nor numerate, with cultural focuses revolving around hip-hop and body piercing and with zero interest in changing their behavior. Parents should investigate one of the above solutions or invest their hard-earned dollars elsewhere while their offspring find employment in the world of the minimum wage.
That, my friends is the key. The behavioral change is what they are scared of. Once they are OUTSIDE the ORG they will see the folly of it all.
Another quote:
They arrive in class with no questions--and at times with no books--and only grudgingly answer my questions. It would be illuminating for a parent to be a fly on the wall in my classroom and to observe his or her child's performance.
I believe many sincere JW Kids WOULD HAVE questions. That is another thing the Society is scared of. At the very least they would have MORE questions once they learn to identify fallacies in Logic/Debate class, true bible history in WORLD HISTORY or ARCHEOLOGY classes, learn about fossil records and dating methods in SCIENCE class.
-ithinkisee
i'm thinking back to all the "signs" that were cited - officially and unofficially - as reasons we knew that armageddon would be coming any day now.
there was a fellow in my book study 30 years ago who used to bring time magazine to every meeting.
to him, whatever was in the news that week was evidence that the system couldn't hold out much longer.
"This year's drama was so powerful and really hit home. The talks at the convention were so pwerful! The end must be so close!"
-ithinkisee
years ago, in the watchtower's truth book, the chapter called "how to identify the true .
religion" offered a set of reasons for thinking that jw's had the "truth".. the very first "identifying mark " of "true religion" was stated as having "love among.
themselves" as jesus plainly said in john 13: 35 : "by this all will know that you are my.
When a small firm, let us say, with under 100 employees, hires a new worker they are often shown a lot of attention and receive a lot of smiles and "hello's." What you describe a "love bombing" is simply normal human social behavior.
A small firm does not hold your family hostage if you decide to leave though. It is easy to take one identifying trait ALONE and attack it, but it is several or all the cultish traits at once that identify a group as a cult.
-ithinkisee
well, i just finished the interview at the local abc affiliate here in new orleans.. i don't think it will be edited!.
it airs sunday morning at 11:30 am.
hopefully i'll have the video on my website by the end of next week.. bryan.
Bryan,
Great job. I hope it gets made into a TV movie .... keep the (non-JW) faith brother!
BTW, I noticed the link to the pyramidology stuff is now a broken link.
Might want to link to another site that talks about pyramidology.
-ithinkisee
i have listed all the books i found at the library that mention 586/87 as the fall of jerusalem.
i was also able to link to all of them (except the first one listed) on amazon.com!
many are out of print or unavailable as new books but you can buy almost all of them used on amazon.com ... some are only $10-12 each!
Scholar/tool: If he was so informed about the subject then he should have known that for decades there has always been a gulf between the chronologies ever since the days of Russell.
Newsflash .... I personally know people in the writing department .... many of these people even have no idea there is a gulf between chronologies.
Those who know will never admit it for fear of being "Ed Dunlop'd" out of Bethel.
Those that might have an "inkling" there is a gulf merely chalks it up to "reliable bible chronology" vs. those half-wit archeologists and historians.
-ithinkisee
one of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament.
i've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.. the only occasions i can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with jesus in paradise.. none of these are overly convincing.
why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise.
---insert cricket chirping noise---
-ithinkisee
one of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament.
i've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.. the only occasions i can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with jesus in paradise.. none of these are overly convincing.
why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise.
I didn't ask you about the other scriptures did I Def'd?
I asked you about Revelation 5:10. You are a well-trained JW - changing the subject when you are backed into a corner. That's what they ALL do. That's what I used to do.
If you answer that one for me (rev 5:10) we can move on to the other ones, because I am ready for those too.
So I ask .... how do you explain the terrible misstranslation of Rev 5:10?
In that Questions From Readers the Society says:
"the same as it renders the identical preposition followed by the genitive (possessive) case as "over" in Revelation 9:11 and 11:6. "They have over them a king." "They have authority over the waters."
This is bogus because using OVER in those cases does not change the meaning of the scripture. They are not speaking of location, they are speaking of authority.
The problem the Society runs into is they use Rev 5:10 as PROOF POSITIVE this means they are ruling OVER the earth in heaven. So they are using the word OVER as location. This word is not used for location in Revelation 9:11 and 11:6.
So it is basically a JW proof text with no proof. (Like most of them)This caused an obvious problem with Rev 5:10. What would the JW Writers do? Easy! They just got out their pens and crossed out "upon" and replaced it with "over".
None of the JW Translators were Greek scholars anyways, so they have no true appreciation of how serious it is to tamper with scripture. Besides, they have a cult to run!But I doubt you will even address this. You'll move on to another point and pretend this little discussion never happened.
You are a good JW. Keep thinking that way and maybe we can reconvene in 30 years and have this same discussion.
-ithinkisee
one of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament.
i've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.. the only occasions i can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with jesus in paradise.. none of these are overly convincing.
why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise.
I'll even do some homework for you Def'd .... check out this twisted reasoning ... and the arrogance at the end of the article:
*** w60 6/15 pp. 383-384 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
•
In the statement at Revelation 5:10, "they will rule as kings over the earth," why does the New World Translation use the word "over," while other translations, such as the King James Version, American Standard Version, Douay and Diaglott, use "on"?—J. D. J., U.S.A.The New World Translation at Revelation 5:10 renders the Greek preposition epí in connection with the earth as "over" the same as it renders the identical preposition followed by the genitive (possessive) case as "over" in Revelation 9:11 and 11:6. "They have over them a king." "They have authority over the waters." Thus you see that this preposition followed by the genitive case does not in every instance have the meaning of "upon" or "on." This preposition, epí, followed by the genitive case, may refer to place in answer to the question, "Where?" and may thus signify "upon, on, in, at, near," but it may also refer to a position as above or as denoting pre-eminence. Thus we read at Matthew 2:22 that Archelaus was king "of" or "over" Judea, and at Ephesians 4:6 that God is "over" all. Also, it may refer to one’s being over a business or an office, as at Acts 6:3, where we read of the apostles searching out seven qualified brothers to "appoint them over this necessary business." See also Acts 8:27; 12:20.
So in Revelation 5:10 it refers to being over the earth as rulers, not being exactly on the earth, because the rest of Revelation as well as other texts of the Christian Greek Scriptures show that Jesus Christ and his joint heirs of the Kingdom will rule in heaven, which is the throne of God, whereas the earth is merely the footstool and therefore not the place for the glorified Christ to rule. Consistent translators who render things contextually will therefore render this expression in Revelation 5:10 as "over the earth." Thus the Complete Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton renders the verse: "And have made them into a Kingdom and priests for our God; and they will reign over the earth." See also An American Translation by Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. P. Smith.
The above instance drives home the truth that the Bible cannot be properly translated without knowledge and understanding of the purposes of God.
god!!!!
it just frys me that they brainwash these fools and they believe.
i'm out but my wife still straggles behind.
A couple of times my wife handed me a $20 bill or something to drop in the contribution box, and I walked right by it and put it in my pocket.
This was after I finally made the mental break from JWs and I was really pissed. It felt good to do that. It sucks feeling like I am deceiving my wife, but it felt good to do that and not feel any guilt about not making it to JW Fantasy Land.
-ithinkisee
