Posts by bennyk

i'm sure we can agree that all the organizational power ultimately rests in the hands of the eleven little men in brooklyn known collectively as the governing body.

bennyk

Yes; there is dissension. What of it? When an "anointed" disagrees with official WTS dogma, he soon departs or is expelled.

Remember: Two-thirds of the Governing Body can disfellowship the other third and all the other anointed combined.

Ergo: Expect no coup, just dry-rot. (Not with a bang, but a whimper.)

23

Elder is calling friends, JC any day now!

by BurnTheShips in

yes, i have been working on "the fade" since before my baby was born in january and trying to keep as low a profile as i can.

will be moving out of the neighborhood soon and i had hoped to disappear.

so anyways, leaving the dubs has not made me lose my faith in god or christ.

bennyk

(From the Flock book, pp. 94,95:)
If it is learned that a person has taken up association with
another religious organization, the matter should be investigated,
and if verified, a committee should be formed .
If it is clearly established that the person has joined
another religion and intends to remain with it, the

elders would make a brief announcement to the congregation
that such one has disassociated himself. (w86
10/15 p . 31)

So merely leaving a church building may not be a problem (especially if you point out the above to them).

However, it really all depends on your local Body of Elders (i.e. your mileage may vary).

60

We've been invited to a JC

by besty in

for those of you don't know our story sweet pea and i stopped attending all meetings quite abruptly about 4 months ago.

since then we have had a few ill-advised conversations with jw friends and family stating our reasons - sometimes in emails.

also sp emailed a new friend on another forum her experiene with going to a new church.

Write a calm letter to numerous friends stating that you are concerned that the Watch Tower Society has become a spiritual tyrant and an impediment to your relationship to God and Christ, and ask for your friends' viewpoint on this matter. That way, when the announcement is made that "Besty is no longer..." your friends will have favourable grist for their speculation-mill -- they will automatically conclude that your letter to (one of) them was the specific cause of your dismissal.

9

Do you remember this change?

by Awakened07 in

thinking about the 1995 change (1914 generation) made me remember vaguely another change that i seem to remember 'shook' me quite a bit, maybe even more so (not quite sure why exactly, that's why i'd like to remind myself of this).. .

-it was about how 'new light' had revealed that it wasn't jw who were separating the sheep from the goats while they go door-to-door, but instead jehovah (or jesus) that will separate them when time comes.. anyone here remember something along those lines, and if so, what publication it was in etc.?.

.

bennyk

And don't forget the follow-up Question from Readers:

*** w97 7/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
We were thrilled with our study of Jesus’ parable of the sheep and the goats. In view of the new understanding presented in “The Watchtower” of October 15, 1995, can we still say that Jehovah’s Witnesses today are sharing in a separating work?
Yes. Understandably, many have wondered about this because Matthew 25:31, 32 says: “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.” The Watchtower of October 15, 1995, showed why these verses apply after the great tribulation begins. Jesus will arrive in his glory with his angels and will sit on his judgment throne. Then, he will separate people. In what sense? He will render decisions based on what people did or did not do before that time.
We can compare this to the development of a legal process leading up to a court case. The evidence builds up over an extended period before the court rules and hands down a sentence. The evidence as to whether people now alive will turn out to be sheep or goats has been accumulating for a long time. And it is still coming in. But when Jesus sits on his throne, the case will be complete. He will be ready to render judgment. People will be separated either to everlasting cutting-off or to everlasting life.
However, the fact that the separation of people to life or to death mentioned at Matthew 25:32 is yet future does not mean that no separating, or dividing, occurs before that. The Bible, in Matthew chapter 13, mentions one separation work that occurs earlier. Interestingly, the book United in Worship of the Only True God, pages 179-80, treats this under the heading “Separating of People”. The book says: “There are also other significant events that Jesus prominently associated with the conclusion of the system of things. One of these is the separation of the ‘sons of the kingdom’ from the ‘sons of the wicked one.’ Jesus spoke of this in his parable about a wheat field that an enemy oversowed with weeds.”
The book was referring to Jesus’ illustration set out at Matthew 13:24-30 and explained in verses 36-43. Note in verse 38 that the fine seeds of wheat represent the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds stand for the sons of the wicked one. Verses 39 and 40 show that in the ‘conclusion of the system of things’—during the time in which we now live—the weeds are collected. They are separated out and finally burned, destroyed.
The illustration deals with anointed Christians (who in the parable of the sheep and the goats are called Jesus’ brothers). Still, the point is clear that a vital separation does occur during our time, with the anointed being distinguished from those who profess to be Christians but who prove themselves to be “sons of the wicked one.”
Jesus provided other examples of people being divided, or separated. Recall that he said concerning the broad road that leads to destruction: “Many are the ones going in through it.” (Matthew 7:13) That was not a comment just about the final outcome. It was a comment about an ongoing development, just as is true now of the few finding the cramped road leading off into life. Recall, too, that when sending out the apostles, Jesus said that they would find some who would be deserving. Others would not be deserving, and the apostles were to shake the dust off their feet “for a witness against” such people. (Luke 9:5) Is it not true that something similar happens as Christians carry on their public ministry today? Some respond well, whereas others reject the divine message that we are bringing.
The articles in The Watchtower dealing with the sheep and the goats noted: “While the judging as described in the parable is in the near future, even now something vital is taking place. We Christians are engaged in a lifesaving work of proclaiming a message that causes a division among people. (Matthew 10:32-39).” In that passage in Matthew chapter 10, we read that Jesus said that following him would be a cause for division—father against son, daughter against mother.
Finally, Christ’s spirit-anointed brothers have spearheaded the worldwide preaching of the Kingdom message. As people hear it and react favorably or unfavorably, they are identifying themselves. We humans cannot, and we should not, say, ‘This person is a sheep; that one a goat,’ in the sense conveyed in Matthew chapter 25. Still, our exposing people to the good news allows them to show where they stand—what they are and how they react to Jesus’ brothers. Hence, like mounting evidence for a court case, the division between those who support Jesus’ brothers and those who refuse to support them is becoming evident. (Malachi 3:18) As The Watchtower showed, Jesus will soon sit on his throne and pronounce sentence, people being judicially separated in a final sense to life or to cutting-off.

24

you can't count to infinity...

by return visitor in

jw
friends

because you can always add another number.

well, the bible says god had no begining, if this is true than an infinite number if events would have to take place before he created the heavens and the earth.

you couldn't say that it was the first thing he did because if you went back to that point in time god would have still been there infinitely before that.

bennyk

Didn't J. S. Bell say something along the lines of: "Time is just God's way of keeping everything from happening at once..." (?)

72

The "Seventy Years" explained

by Doug Mason in

here is a picture-based explanation of the "seventy years" prophesied by jeremiah.. http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/70_years_of_servitude.pdf.

please note that there are several pages and that you should set your pdf reader to full page.. as i said before, i have a red-green color vision deficiency, but this time i have taken the plunge and used color.

please tell me where i need to make corrections with the colors.. as always, i appreciate your suggestions for improvements, corrections and additions.. doug.

bennyk

And none of this matters because the "Gentile Times" have not ended.

None of the Watch Tower Society's prophecies regarding the "End of the Gentile Times" were fulfilled.

Here is an excerpt of "The Time is at Hand" (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. II), pp.76-78 in the pre-1915 editions:

In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove: [B77]
Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will obtain full universal control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date; because the overthrow of these Gentile governments is directly caused by his dashing them to pieces as a potter's vessel (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 2:27), and establishing in their stead his own righteous government.
Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of A. D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head; because every member is to reign with Christ, being a joint-heir with him of the Kingdom, and it cannot be fully "set up" without every member.
Fourthly, It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down of the Gentiles, but shall arise from the dust of divine disfavor, to honor; because the "Times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled or completed.
Fifthly, It will prove that by that date, or sooner, Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away; because their "blindness in part" was to continue only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25), or, in other words, until the full number from among the Gentiles, who are to be members of the body or bride of Christ, would be fully selected.
Sixthly, It will prove that the great "time of trouble such [B78] as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy; and then men will learn to be still, and to know that Jehovah is God and that he will be exalted in the earth. (Psa. 46:10) The condition of things spoken of in symbolic language as raging waves of the sea, melting earth, falling mountains and burning heavens will then pass away, and the "new heavens and new earth" with their peaceful blessings will begin to be recognized by trouble-tossed humanity. But the Lord's Anointed and his rightful and righteous authority will first be recognized by a company of God's children while passing through the great tribulation--the class represented by m and t on the Chart of the Ages (see also pages 235 to 239, Vol. I); afterward, just at its close, by fleshly Israel; and ultimately by mankind in general.
Seventhly, It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34)--and fully consume the power of these kings. Its own power and dominion will be established as fast as by its varied influences and agencies it crushes and scatters the "powers that be"-- civil and ecclesiastical--iron and clay.

Prefer to use the post-1914 edition of the book? Here are listed the changes made in the post-1914 editions, as noted in the Watch Tower Reprints, p. 5649:

CHANGES IN "SCRIPTURE STUDIES"
We call attention to a few slight changes which have been
made in four pages of Vol. II. and six pages of Vol. IIl.,
"STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES." These are all trivial and do
not alter the real sense and lesson, but conform to the facts
as we have them today. The pages containing these corrections
are as follows:
Vol. II., page 77. line 1, "will be the farthest limit," reads will
see the disintegration."
Vol. II., page 77, line 6, "will obtain full universal control,"
reads "will begin to assume control.’ ’
Vol. II., page 77, linesl6,17, "end of A. D. 1914," reads "end
of the overthrow."
Vol. II., page 81, line 9, "can date only from A. D. 1914," reads
"could not precede A. D. 1915."
VoI. II., page 170, line 16, "at that time they will all be overturned.’
’*
Vol. II., page 221, line 25, "full favor until A. D. 1914," reads
"full favor until after 1915."

71

Becoming officially recognized as Annointed

by B_Deserter in

i've heard there is a very secretive process the wts uses to determine whether or not they'll consider someone "of the annointed.

" from what i've heard it's a very rigorous set of questions.

can anyone here confirm this?

bennyk

Watch for the appearance of a sub heavenly class.

Maybe, Gary. But my guess is the Society will soon be receiving "New (and improved) Light" indicating that the number 144 000 is not to be taken as literal. That way they can keep the two-class/two-destiny system without worrying about the non-declining number of Partakers. The number 144 000 was conspicuous by its absence in the 01. May 2007 QfR. And an increase in the number of partakers won't threaten the current power structure because the Governing Body has already declared that the "genuine" (non-GB) anointed willingly serve under the direction of the Governing Body, have no special insight, and may even be 'spiritually weak.'

71

Becoming officially recognized as Annointed

by B_Deserter in

i've heard there is a very secretive process the wts uses to determine whether or not they'll consider someone "of the annointed.

" from what i've heard it's a very rigorous set of questions.

can anyone here confirm this?

bennyk

The local congregation elders and publishers might not believe you are really of the
anointed, so they might scoff, but they ultimately cannot deny your claim.

Perhaps they cannot deny your claim in principle, but the local (non-anointed) Body of Elders can determine that they will not count you as a partaker, and thus not "officially" recognize you as anointed.