Posts by bennyk

4

Doesn't this letter blame the elders?

by Atlantis in

doesn't this letter blame the elders for fueling the wrong expectations about 1975?

(dutch translators please verify!

).here is the dutch letter translation we received..---------------------------------------------------------------"could it be that the unfulfilled expectations around the year 1975 still play you tricks?

bennyk

Thanks for posting this.

The translation is correct.

The statement "Everything in the world we see that by God's spirit recorded prophecies are true" is awkward. Better: 'By everything in the world we see that the recorded prophecies inspired by God's spirit are true.'

And in the paragraph following [the translated excerpt], the Society begins by suggesting that one may have lost joy in the Service because of complaints toward the Brothers and Sisters... [they do not consider the possibility that one may have become disillusioned with the Society and no longer wish to spread the Society's message] They encourage further zealous field service by stating: " Don't allow anything to hold you back from remaining a joyful preacher of the Kingdom of Heaven. With the Prize so close, we cannot and may not take the chance."

(Nearly forty years after 1975, this sounds a bit ridiculous.)

27

How did the 1919 GB know they were chosen ?

by Phizzy in

the present gb/fds claim a kind of apostolic succession going back to the now claimed first appearance of the fds in 1919.. i don't think anywhere is it made clear who made up the fds then, but let us go along with the fiction, (in reality we know only rutherford really ruled the roost) and assume there was a group of guys who were the fds, how did they know they were chosen as such ?.

there obviously is nothing in the wt writings of the time as all this is noo lite, so, if they did not know their heaven appointed role, why would they carry it out, except by accident?

and if so, how could they possibly produce "food at the proper time "?.

bennyk

They didn't know they were "chosen".

The supposed F&DS of 1919 continued to proclaim that Russell was the "Faithful and Wise Servant" until 1927. In fact, in the 15. December 1922 Watchtower, it is even stated that it was a necessity of the faith to believe that Russell served as such.

20

Is this their arguement?

by problemaddict in

i have had some "friendly" conversations with people on my coninuing fade journey.

i realize that isn't always wise, but they are all non-related to each other, and we keep it light.

even my brother got in the mix.

bennyk

I forgot the name of the experiments...

Stanley Milgram.

An Elder I had once respected and known for a number of years told me that he does not agree with everything the Society teaches. I asked what he does when he studies with someone and discusses a subject on which he and the Society are at odds. He said: "I tell the person what the Society teaches. I am only an individual and could be wrong; but if the Society is wrong, they 'pay the freight'."

I said: "You tell them they must believe something you personally believe is false?!? Don't you feel that bruises your integrity?"

Our relationship rapidly went downhill...

11

Carl Sagan quote about WTBTS saying " They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914,"

by notjustyet in

i wanted to find out where carl sagan got this info from.. i know they, the wtbts thought that the end would be in 1914, then 1915 but do not remember reading where they made the statement that it did end.. .

thanks, njy.

here is his quote:.

bennyk

Therefore it seems that now is the time for the church to proclaim far and wide in Christendom this good news. Hence it is the purpose of the Society to ask every public speaker, all the Pilgrim brethren, all the elders of classes, all who can give a public discourse in every part of Christendom, to prepare a discourse upon the subject: “The World Has Ended~Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” and to herald this message as a witness to Christendom; and it would seem if the church fails to do this, the very stones will cry out.

(WT 01. July 1920, p.200)

Jesus furthermore said: "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come". (Matthew 24:14) In the year 1919 many of the Bible Students in different parts of the earth, emerging from army camps and prison dungeons, rejoicing in their privileges, again assembled together and with united action went forth to proclaim the message of the presence of the Lord; and particularly the message, "The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living Will Never Die," clearly in fulfillment of the words of the Master in the text last above quoted. Numbers of public lectures delivered upon this subject throughout Christendom have gladdened the hearts of hundreds of thousands of people, comforting those that mourn. In 1920 this message was put into printed form in the booklet entitled "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", and in the lands where the greatest persecution prevailed against the people of the Lord, greatest has been the witness. (The Harp of God, paragraph 438)

11

Carl Sagan quote about WTBTS saying " They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914,"

by notjustyet in

i wanted to find out where carl sagan got this info from.. i know they, the wtbts thought that the end would be in 1914, then 1915 but do not remember reading where they made the statement that it did end.. .

thanks, njy.

here is his quote:.

bennyk

Surely the words of the Master are now in course of fulfillment: "This gospel ["The World Has Ended: Millions Now Living Will Never Die"] shall be preached in all the world for a witness, and then shall the end come". The Master’s inspiring words thrill the heart of the Christian and spur him on with greater zeal to give the witness now. We urge the dear brethren everywhere, everyone who is qualified, according to the Lord’s arrangement, for speaking to the public, to use for all public addresses the subject: "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". It is the message that we want to get to the people. It is the message of the hour. It is the message that must go to all Christendom as a witness before the final end of the present order.

(WT 15. Oct. 1920, p.310 bracketed material in original)

23

Watchtower Birthday Logic

by enigma1863 in

the watchtower bases their opposition to birthdays by two scriptures, saying something bad happened and god must have put it in there for a reason.

following their logic are there any other things jws shouldnt do because bad things happened in a couple of scriptures?.

bennyk

(Recycled old post [29.04.2005])

If the celebration of birthdays is wrong BECAUSE in the scriptural accounts ONE person died at each of two such celebrations, would it not be forbidden to give (wedding) presents???

(1 Kings 9:16NWT: "(Pharaoh the king of Egypt himself had come up and then captured Ge'zer and burned it with fire, and the Ca'naanites dwelling in the city he had killed. So he gave it as a parting gift to his daughter, the wife of Solomon.)")

"New Light"!!!

7

WTBS publication only TTATT packet

by Comatose in

after reading raymond franz's book crisis of conscience, it occurred to me how valuable a packet of only wt publications containing the truth about the truth would be.

many we want to reach of our loved ones would never believe something online or in a book.

but if you could order or download a packet made just of wt publications, you could reach them maybe.

bennyk

In one of my meetings with the Elders, two of them asked me how they could be sure I hadn't altered one of the books I'd shown them.

In virtual disbelief I said: "Because it's your book; you watched me walk over to your bookshelves and remove it..."

15

144,000 before 1935?

by nolongerconfused in

i've always thought about this but have never received an answer on how the wbts explaiend the phenomenon.... to my understanding, every member of the wbts had the heavenly hope...however, by 2 classes were created...the heavenly, and earthly hope.... does anyone know the number of jw's as of that famous assembly of 1935 where the earthly hope was revealed and imposed?.

what is the wbts explanation for the thousands of jw's who had heavenly hope now all of a sudden have the earthly hope?.

this leads me to one conclusion...how dare this or any other organization determine what your hope or believe should be...shame on them.

bennyk

The Watch Tower Society taught until 1935 that the "Great Crowd" was a second class of Christians with a heavenly hope.

The 144 000 were the Bride-class, the Great Multitude (Crowd) an attendant class ('Brides-maids').

The increasing numbers of Bible Students affiliated with the Watch Tower Society did not force the change in doctrine. The teaching allowed for large numbers of heaven-bound Christians. The Watch Tower Society taught the following in the 1917 publication The Finished Mystery on page 103:

FM103
Was ten thousand times ten thousand, and
thousands of thousands

.— The number of the
Great Company will apparently exceed one
hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1
indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites,
which would make the number of the Great
Company approximate 411,840,000.— T118,
119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12

Currently, belief that more than 144 000 will receive a heavenly reward will result in Disfellowshipping. (w 01. April 1986 QfR)

94

14 months after printing the "Steve and Selma" article, guess what the Society's latest Awake is about...

by cedars in

you guessed it.... .

http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=201304&output=html&pub=g&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.

cedars.

bennyk

It sounds to me as though the Witnesses are in an abusive relationship:

(One only needs to alter a few words...)

Why do some Witnesses choose to remain with a soul-destroying cult? A common reason is that they fear things will get worse if they leave. The Watch Tower Society has threatened that God will harm or even kill them and their minor children if they tried to escape. Others have hesitated to leave because they fear that their friends and relatives would turn against them. For example, Isabel, whose experience is referred to at the outset of this article, left her religion. She states:"The entire congregation shunned me, and I was forced to move away with my children.”

Still other reasons why some disgruntled Witnesses choose to stay are:

They want their children to grow up with both parents, fearing the "faithful" mate will divorce them.
They worry about being able to support themselves and their children if they lose their Witness-related employment.
They erroneously believe that they are "murmurers".
They are ashamed to admit that they have been and are being spiritually abused.
They hope the situation will improve.

21

A treacherous heart might decieve a Christian making him unable to see that his family is actually, Moloch.

by Theocratic Sedition in

jw
friends

from this week's congregation bible study, the first 8 paragraphs of chapter 4 in the jeremiah book.

page 44 as follows.. in our case, we certainly do not think of ourselves as worshippers of idol gods.

however, under the heading of "god", one dictionary says: a person or thing of supreme value.

bennyk

“However easily one might start to minimize the wise, balanced advice from the faithful and discreet slave class about additional education and start to miss meetings!”

I wonder: Would this "wise, balanced advice" be from the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" when it was the entire faithful remnant of Anointed Christians worldwide, or is it only from the responsible Members of the Governing Body when serving as a group?

"Hence , how might we be misled?"

Well, I suppose we could take the screeds of the so-called "Faithful and Discreet Slave" seriously...