jaffacake

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Posts by jaffacake

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  11

  Can defd or another JW tell me why the watchtower society was formed?

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is serious part of my research.

  the watchtower articles from the 1970s help, but there are gaps in my understanding.

  russell was the founder of the watchtower society, and presumably part of the faithful & discreet slave?

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  jaffacake

  TD

  The fact is that at this time and for a long time afterwards the persons who belonged to "the Society" were ALSO members of other churches and congregations, frankly mostly of the Adventist congregations that were still left around and forming into organized groups themselves or remaining independent - but also from other denominations. So initially, at least, Russell never had the intention to form a new or separate Church, in fact he viewed "Church" and Organized Religion with a strict hierarchy and centralization, etc. as a BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM.

  Thanks for all the historical info. So your post explains the old watchtower articles I posted above, where Russell (the FDS according to WT teaching) said we should not have an earthly organisation. This must be one of those 'former' truths I've heard so much about in the JW religion? I wonder when the Watchtower started to turn into the very thing it set itself up to oppose?
• 
  11

  Can defd or another JW tell me why the watchtower society was formed?

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is serious part of my research.

  the watchtower articles from the 1970s help, but there are gaps in my understanding.

  russell was the founder of the watchtower society, and presumably part of the faithful & discreet slave?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Russell split with N.H. Barbour during the first half of 1879 over the mechanics of the Ransom. This was at least the primary reason for the publication of a periodical of his own. (Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, the first issue of which appeared in July)

  
  
  
  
  

  Oh yes, so that means that in 1914, when they now say his presence begun, they were still teaching he had already returned invisibly in 1874 (herald of Christ's presence). So while Christians of many religions were 'on the watch' for Christ's return, the Watchtower were not watching. Why would they, they were teaching he had already begun his presence. Even Russell's successor, Rutherford (the FDS) kept on publishing the date 1874 for start of Christ's presence long after both Russell's death and long afer the alleged appointment of the 'slave' by Christ in Spring 1919. So Christ appointed the only religion with the wrong teaching, feeding folks with the wrong (perishable) spiritual food......... or did he?

  defd - I really need some help with this one please...
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  6

  Rutherford makes a good point

  by carla in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just received the millions reprint book.

  i actually found something i agree with!.

  error always seeks the dark, while truth is always enhanced by the light.

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  jaffacake

  
  IT

  That's a tremendous boost for my collection. Thanks!

  Carla,

  I leave for Florida on Wednesday
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  11

  Can defd or another JW tell me why the watchtower society was formed?

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is serious part of my research.

  the watchtower articles from the 1970s help, but there are gaps in my understanding.

  russell was the founder of the watchtower society, and presumably part of the faithful & discreet slave?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  What a difference in what the FDS was teaching about the Bible in the late-10th century: I would welcome comments from defd

  W - tower 1882 April Questions & Answers

  “We are strictly unsectarian…(read 1 Cor 3:1-4)…we have no creed (fence) to bind us together or keep others out of our company. The Bible is our only Standard, and its teachings our only creed…We are in fellowship with all Christians in whom we can recognise the Spirit of Christ, and especially with those who recognise the Bible as the only Standard. We do not require therefore that all should see just as we do in order to be called Christians, realising that growth and knowledge is a gradual process; nor do we see reason to expect that any but the Watchmen of Zion will ‘see eye to eye (Isa 52:8) until that which is perfect is come..(1 Cor

  “If all Christians were to thus free themselves from prescribed creeds, and study the Word of God without denominational bias, truth and knowledge and real Christian fellowship and unity would result. The Spirit of the Head would pervade the unfettered members of the Body and sectarian pride would vanish.”

  W - tower 1884 Feb

  “We belong to no earthly organization…we adhere only to that heavenly organization ‘whose names are written in heaven’ (Heb Luke )”

  “What think you?...suppose…all man made creeds and forms …and names were laid aside, or that all Christians met in the One name of Christ, and in earnest simplicity, studied HIS words under the direction of God’s Spirit and the explanations furnished in the Apostles’ writings, would there be long and serious differences, even of opinion?... And so, by whatsoever names men may call us, it matters not to us; we acknowledge none other name than ‘the only name given under heaven and among men’ – Jesus Christ. We call ourselves simply CHRISTIANS and we raise no fence to separate from us any who believe in the foundation stone of our building mentioned by Paul: ‘that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures’; and those for whom this is not broad enough have no right to the name Christian.”

  WT 1895 15 September article “How to Conduct Group Meetings”

  “Beware of ‘organisation’. It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others’ consciences and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God’s word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day”.
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  11

  Can defd or another JW tell me why the watchtower society was formed?

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is serious part of my research.

  the watchtower articles from the 1970s help, but there are gaps in my understanding.

  russell was the founder of the watchtower society, and presumably part of the faithful & discreet slave?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  By 1870 when CT Russell began his lone independent study of the Bible, the faithful & discreet slave class was over 1,800 years old

  W - tower 15 July 1960 page 435

  “Down through the years the slave-like congregation has been feeding its true members faithfully and discreetly. From Pentecost, AD 33, up to the very present hour this has been lovingly and carefully performed. Yes, and these domestics have been fed on progressive spiritual food that keeps them abreast of the “bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established”. (Prov 4:18) All this has proved to be “food at the proper time” as stated by Jesus.”

  So the claim is that this faithful & discreet slave was to have a continuous uninterrupted history down through the centuries. Each century & succeeding generation passing on increased illumination. By 1870 & CT Russell, the light should have been very bright.

  Charles Russell wrote many articles to explain why the Bible students were formed. He wrote with great authority, and before the days of failed predictions, he seemed to base his early writing on what the Bible taught. Here are some wonderful articles he wrote in those early days when he was determined that Christianity as he understood it should never become a hierarchical organisation, as had happened when the early church evolved into Catholicism.

  W - tower 1881 by the President C T Russell

  “..their organization was of Spirit; their law for the government of each was love, and all as a whole were put under obedience to ‘the law of the Spirit’ as it was expressed in the life, actions and words of their Lord…”

  “..it is clearly seen that these present day churches…interpret and enforce the ‘traditions of the elders’ which ‘make void the Word of God.’ These take the place of the true Head of the Church – Jesus and the true teacher and guide to all truth, the Holy Spirit. Hear the prophet Isaiah express it (chap

  “This brings us to our second preposition, viz that all Christians should be joined to this organisation… But says one; Must I not join some organisation on earth, assent to some creed and have my name written on earth? No. Remember that Jesus is your pattern and teacher, and neither in his words or acts will you find any authority for binding yourselves with creeds or traditions of the elders, which all tend to make the word of God of none effect (Mark 7:13) and bring you under a bondage that will hinder your growth in grace and knowledge, and against which Paul warned you to ‘stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free, and be not entangled with the yoke of bondage (Gal 5:1}”
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  23

  CoC or ISoCF

  by TheListener in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  which of ray's books would you recommend someone read first.

  coc does a great job of explaining ray's situation and the results.

  while covering some major doctrines along the way.

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  jaffacake

  
  Inq, you said:

  I read a post yesterday and someone lived and so-and-so location for 5 years and not once did a JW knock on the door but in other areas they won't stop knocking on the doors -- funny that!

  I have been married for 23 years and only once ever had a visit from the JWs (13 years ago). My parents see the JWs in their street many times per year. That is funny!

  Onacruise

  You said:

  Ray is trying, as best he can, to salvage the remnants (no pun intended) of his Christian theology; and his own convictions as being an "anointed" one. He's entitled to that, I suppose, as a human being. He's also very delusional in those same respects, imo. He's also near to death...mortality has a way of taking a toll on a person. May he, and his uncle, meet the Maker they have both trusted with their souls

  Interesting opinion. His theology and convictons represent pretty sound Chrstianity, unless you are a JW of course.

  And as for closeness to death taking its toll, he started writing his books nearly a quarter of a century ago for goodness sake, so I don't see his present age an issue. I like to think how many good people his testimony has helped, whether in a practical or spiritual way. I have little doubt about the good he has done to others, and cannot see how he could have harmed anyone. I therefore have deep respect for the man.
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  8

  Letter to my future child...

  by kittyeatzjdubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i promise:.

  to celebrate your first birthday and every birthday after that.

  to let you have your school friends over on the weekends and after school.

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  jaffacake

  Kitty and KidA

  I agree with both of you. I very occasionally hit my first child in the way you mention until I made a decision not too. I found discipline more effective thereafter.

  Mind you, I don't believe in the namby pamby timeout in the corner approach either. Neither hitting nor timeout approaches work IMHO, although any form of hitting produces the least effective results, sooner or later. Yes I was hit and it didn't do me any harm...and all that..., but there are civilised options that work so much better so why revert to the middle ages?

  It is so very obvious to me that you are such excellent parents.
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  11

  Can defd or another JW tell me why the watchtower society was formed?

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is serious part of my research.

  the watchtower articles from the 1970s help, but there are gaps in my understanding.

  russell was the founder of the watchtower society, and presumably part of the faithful & discreet slave?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Thanks LL, I was thinking of even earlier, and not so much the legal corporation. Why would Russell want to start a new group of Bible students and a new magazine, when there were plenty already in existence. One reason seems to be his split with the adventists.
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  45

  So, are you, by nature, and introvert or extrovert?

  by onacruse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mulan's thread, and simon's post thereto, got me to thinking about this, especially in terms of what i might be today, minus the influence of the wts.. by nature, i was always an introvert.

  early on (age 10 or so), i immersed myself in mathematics, physics, chemistry...the "pure" sciences, devoid of "worldly" meaning...just the plain and simple facts, thank you ma'am.

  i'd stay in my room and study stuff until my mom had to literally grab me by the ear and say "craig, go outside and blow off the stink!.

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  jaffacake

  I'm an introvert, but not to an extreme.
• 
  6

  Rutherford makes a good point

  by carla in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just received the millions reprint book.

  i actually found something i agree with!.

  error always seeks the dark, while truth is always enhanced by the light.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Carla,

  This is very useful to me, as I still have lines of communication open to an active JW (just) who seems to show some signs of doubt. I collect these kind of quotations.

  Do you know if this publication is available online? I am reminded of the scriptural quote:

  "If one rejects a matter before he hears, it is folly and shame to him." (Proverbs 18:13, LITV)