Posts by SeymourButts

49

God and Science

by Shining One in

now here is an interesting take on all things..... .

.

http://www.crosscurrents.org/godand.htm

God and Science

by Shining One in

now here is an interesting take on all things..... .

.

http://www.crosscurrents.org/godand.htm

Absolute dating can be achieved through the use of historical records and through the analysis of biological and geological patterns resulting from annual climatic variations, such as tree rings (dendrochronology) and varve analysis. After 1950, the physical sciences contributed a number of absolute dating techniques that had a revolutionary effect on archaeology and geology. These techniques are based upon the measurement of radioactive processes (radiocarbon; potassium-argon, uranium-lead, thorium-lead, etc.; fission track; thermoluminescence; optically stimulated luminescence; and electron-spin resonance), chemical processes (amino-acid racemization and obsidian hydration), and the magnetic properties of igneous material, baked clay, and sedimentary deposits (paleomagnetism). Other techniques are occasionally useful, for example, historical or iconographic references to datable astronomical events such as solar eclipses (archaeoastronomy).

When archaeologists have access to the historical records of civilizations that had calendars and counted and recorded the passage of years, the actual age of the archaeological material may be ascertained—provided there is some basis for correlating our modern calendar with the ancient calendar. With the decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphics, Egyptologists had access to such an absolute timescale, and the age, in calender years, of the Egyptian dynasties could be established. Furthermore, Egyptian trade wares were used as a basis for establishing the age of the relative chronologies developed for adjoining regions, such as Palestine and Greece. Thus, Sir Arthur Evans was able to establish an accurate absolute chronology for the ancient civilizations of Crete and Greece through the use of Egyptian trade objects that appeared in his excavations—a technique known as cross-dating.

In dendrochronology, the age of wood can be determined through the counting of the number of annual rings in its cross section. Tree ring growth reflects the rainfall conditions that prevailed during the years of the tree's life. Because rainfall patterns vary annually, any given set of tree ring patterns in a region will form a relatively distinct pattern, identifiable with a particular set of years. By comparing the pattern of tree rings in trees whose lifespans partially overlap, these patterns can be extended back in time. By matching the tree rings on an archaeological sample to the master sequence of tree ring patterns, the absolute age of a sample is established. The best known dendrochronological sequences are those of the American Southwest, where wood is preserved by aridity, and Central Europe, where wood is often preserved by waterlogging.

The varved-clay method is applied with fair accuracy on deposits up to 12,000 years old. Streams flowing into still bodies commonly deposit layers (varves) of summer silt and winter clay through the year. Those laid down during the fall and winter have a dark color because of the presence of dead vegetation; those deposited during the rest of the year have a light color. The stratigraphy may also reflect seasonal variation in the velocity of stream flow. By counting each pair of varves the age of the deposit can be determined.

The absolute dating methods most widely used and accepted are based on the natural radioactivity of certain minerals found in rocks. Since the rate of radioactive decay of any particular isotope is known, the age of a specimen can be computed from the relative proportions of the remaining radioactive material and its decay products. By this method the age of the earth is estimated to be about 4.5 billion years old. Some of the radioactive elements used in dating and their decay products (their stable daughter isotopes) are uranium-238 to lead-206, uranium-235 to lead-207, thorium-232 to lead-208, samarium-147 to neodymium-143, rubidium-87 to strontium-87, and potassium-40 to argon-40. Each radioactive member of these series has a known, constant decay rate, measured by its half-life, that is unaffected by any physical or chemical changes. Each decay element has an effective age range, including uranium-238 (100 million to 4.5 billion years) and potassium-40 (100,000 to 4.5 billion years).

Other methods that depend on the effects of radioactive decay include fission track dating and thermoluminescence. Fission track dating is based on the fact that when uranium-238 atoms fission within a solid medium such as a mineral or a glass, they expel charged particles that leave a trail of damage (known as fission tracks) preserved in the medium. The number of tracks per unit area is a function of time and the uranium concentration. Thus it is possible to measure the time that has elapsed since the material solidified. Thermoluminescence, used in dating archaeological material such as pottery, is based on the luminescence produced when a solid is heated; that is, electrons freed during radioactive decay and trapped in the crystal lattice are released by heating, resulting in luminescence. When light is used rather than heat to free the accumulated electrons, the technique is known as optically stimulated resonance. Yet another technique measures the quantity of trapped electrons by detecting the amount of microwave radiation they absorb (electron-spin resonance); it has the advantage that it can be utilized several times on a given sample. All of these techniques have proven somewhat unreliable. Museums sometimes use them to determine if a ceramic is an antique or a modern forgery.

The radioactive carbon-14 method of dating is used to determine the age of organic matter that is several hundred years to approximately 50,000 years old. Carbon dating is possible because all organic matter, including bones and other hard parts, contains carbon and thus contains a scalable proportion of carbon-14 to its decay product, nitrogen-14. The carbon-14, along with nonradioactive carbon-13 and carbon-12, is converted to carbon dioxide and assimilated by plants and organisms; when the plant or animal dies, it no longer acquires carbon, and the carbon-14 begins to decay. The conventional method of measuring the amount of radioactive carbon-14 in a sample involved the detection of individual carbon-14 decay events. In the 1980s a new procedure became available. This technique involves the direct counting of carbon-14 atoms through the use of the accelerator mass spectrometer and has the advantage of being able to use sample sizes up to 1,000 times smaller than those used by conventional radiocarbon dating. The accelerator mass spectrometer technique reduces the amount of statistical error involved in the process of counting carbon-14 ions and therefore produces dates that have smaller standard errors than the conventional method.

Paleomagnetic dating is based on changes in the orientation and intensity of the earth's magnetic field that have occurred over time. The magnetic characteristics of the object or area (e.g., a section of the seafloor) in question are matched to a date range in which the characteristics of the earth's magnetism were similar. Paleomagnetic dating is also based on the fact that the earth periodically reverses the polarity of its magnetism. Different igneous and sedimentary rocks are rich in magnetic particles and provide a record of the polarity of the earth when they were formed. These patterns will be reflected in various geological contexts, such as stratigraphic sequences. Scientists date these changes in polarity through another technique, such as potassium-argon radioactive dating. This has resulted in the calibration of the pattern of changes in the earth's polarity over many millions of years. Scientists can date a new profile by measuring for changes in polarity within the strata and then matching the sequence to the calibrated master stratigraphic sequence of geomagnetic polarity reversals. In archaeomagnetic dating, oriented specimens are recovered from baked immobile archaeological features, such as the soil surrounding a hearth, in order to determine the direction of geomagnetic field at the time they were formed. This procedure results in the plotting of a polar curve, which documents changes in the direction of the magnetic poles for a given region. The polar curve itself does not provide an absolute date but must be calibrated by an independent technique, such as radiocarbon dating.

Chemical dating methods are based on predictable chemical changes that occur over time. Examples include amino-acid racemization, which is potentially useful in situations where no other technique is available to date an archaeological site, and obsidian hydration. The latter is applicable in areas such as Mesoamerica, where obsidian is abundant. Many investigators, however, consider it unreliable.

Fluorine dating is useful to scientists dating early hominid remains. Buried bones take up fluorine from surrounding soils. The amount of fluorine taken up is proportional to the amount in the surrounding deposit and the length of time the bone has been buried. Varying concentrations of fluorine in different deposits preclude the method from being considered absolute, but it can be used to measure the relative ages of bones found in the same deposit.

E. F. Zeuner, Dating the Past (4th ed. 1970); R. H. Dott and R. L. Batten, Evolution of the Earth (1988); M. J. Aitken, Science-based Dating in Archaeology (1990); W. B. Harland et al., A Geologic Time Scale 1989 (1990).

21

How to brainwash only part of your brain.

by Ingenuous in

i was talking to a mental health professional (don't remember her credentials) about jws.

part of what i couldn't get my brain around was how jws (myself included, when i was "in") can seem to function so well in other areas, but so easily and completely give up their minds to others when it comes to the org.

the behavior seems so irrational and deluded, with so many cognitive distortions at work, that healthy functioning in other areas would appear precluded.

SeymourButts

SeymoreButts, is that picture in your avatar from the first Down-album?

I have no idea who it is. I found it on a website while looking for avatars.

21

How to brainwash only part of your brain.

by Ingenuous in

i was talking to a mental health professional (don't remember her credentials) about jws.

part of what i couldn't get my brain around was how jws (myself included, when i was "in") can seem to function so well in other areas, but so easily and completely give up their minds to others when it comes to the org.

the behavior seems so irrational and deluded, with so many cognitive distortions at work, that healthy functioning in other areas would appear precluded.

SeymourButts

Am I arrogant because I said PP was an enemy of God? What difference does it make that if a consequence of his deception he was an enemy of a court, or of a code of ethics, or of karma?

Oops, sorry, I didn't realize that your god was the one true god. Of course, we all know that you are far too intelligent to ever be deceived by some sort of mythical belief...........again. Arrogance comes from the assertation that YOUR beliefs are true and those of everyone else are somehow spawned by the devil. It's kind of tough to be an enemy of something which does not exist, except in ones mind.

10

Tetly Plants Feet Firmly in Mouth

by Shining One in

>i would like one link from you that proves that we were created by god.

i want full proof, not just circular logic.

i want evidence that not only turns the theory of evolution on it's head, but also does a better job of explaining the data and answering where we come from, how we evolved, and what we can expect to find in the future.

SeymourButts

LoL, Tetra...when I read this

i will never stop loving you. (smooch, affirm, smooch, affirm).

I pictured it instantly and laughed so hard that my ice cream came out of my nose!!

49

God and Science

by Shining One in

now here is an interesting take on all things..... .

.

http://www.crosscurrents.org/godand.htm

SeymourButts

I see that you are still hiding...unable to prove the scientists wrong. You know the evidence is there, and you know I can provide it. If you claim that it is in error, it is up to you to qualify your statement, are you afraid? Afraid that you will have to admit the inevitable? Why the fear of what scientists say? The evidence for decay rates is well established, but yet you still claim error. Prove it.

My claim has been established, we are waiting for you to present the foundation that these claims are in error...or can't you?

99

Scholar, please don't post and run...

by in a new york bethel minute in

now, could you do us all a favour and read the replies to your post in the 607 thread?

there were a lot of questions raised by your comment and i think it would be a good witness if you would at least attempt to answer them.

two very important ones are:.

SeymourButts

Scholar is a pretend jw....a poser. Only here to help others play a game.

1

Another evolution court case

by SeymourButts in

jw
friends

when are the iders and creationists going to give up on their preposterous idea of teaching this stuff in the school system?

updated: 01:08 pm edtnew evolution spat in u.s. schools goes to courtby jon hurdle, reuters.

philadelphia (reuters) - a new battle over teaching about man's origins in u.s. schools goes to court for the first time next week, pitting christian conservatives against educators and scientists in a trial viewed as the biggest test of the issue since the late 1980s.. eleven parents of students at a pennsylvania high school are suing over the school district's decision to include "intelligent design" -- an alternative to evolution that involves a god-like creator -- in the curriculum of ninth-grade biology classes.. the parents and the american civil liberties union (aclu) say the policy of the dover area school district in south-central pennsylvania violates the constitutional separation of church and state, which forbids teaching religion in public schools.. they also argue that intelligent design is unscientific and has no place in a science curriculum.. intelligent design holds that nature is so complex it must have been the work of an god-like creator rather than the result of natural selection, as argued by charles darwin in his 1859 theory of evolution.. the school board says there are "gaps" in evolution, which it emphasizes is a theory rather than established fact, and that students have a right to consider other views on the origins of life.

SeymourButts

When are the IDers and creationists going to give up on their preposterous idea of teaching this stuff in the school system?

Updated: 01:08 PM EDT New evolution spat in U.S. schools goes to court By Jon Hurdle, Reuters

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - A new battle over teaching about man's origins in U.S. schools goes to court for the first time next week, pitting Christian conservatives against educators and scientists in a trial viewed as the biggest test of the issue since the late 1980s.

Eleven parents of students at a Pennsylvania high school are suing over the school district's decision to include "intelligent design" -- an alternative to evolution that involves a God-like creator -- in the curriculum of ninth-grade biology classes.

The parents and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) say the policy of the Dover Area School District in south-central Pennsylvania violates the constitutional separation of church and state, which forbids teaching religion in public schools.

They also argue that intelligent design is unscientific and has no place in a science curriculum.

Intelligent design holds that nature is so complex it must have been the work of an God-like creator rather than the result of natural selection, as argued by Charles Darwin in his 1859 Theory of Evolution.

The school board says there are "gaps" in evolution, which it emphasizes is a theory rather than established fact, and that students have a right to consider other views on the origins of life. In their camp is President George W. Bush, who has said schools should teach evolution and intelligent design.

The Dover schools board says it does not teach intelligent design but simply makes students aware of its existence as an alternative to evolution. It denies intelligent design is "religion in disguise" and says it is a scientific theory.

The board is being represented by The Thomas More Law Center, a Michigan-based nonprofit which says it uses litigation to promote "the religious freedom of Christians and time-honored family values."

The center did not return phone calls seeking comment.

The trial begins on Monday in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and is expected to last about five weeks.

"ORWELLIAN" EFFORTS

Dr. John West of the Discovery Institute, which sponsors research on intelligent design, said the case displayed the ACLU's "Orwellian" effort to stifle scientific discourse and objected to the issue being decided in court.

"It's a disturbing prospect that the outcome of this lawsuit could be that the court will try to tell scientists what is legitimate scientific inquiry and what is not," West said. "That is a flagrant assault on free speech."

Opponents including the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the National Association of Biology Teachers say intelligent design is an attempt by the Christian right to teach creationism -- the belief that God created the world -- into public schools under the guise of a theory that does not explicitly mention God. The Supreme Court banned the teaching of creationism in public schools in a 1987 ruling.

"Intelligent design is ultimately a science stopper," said Dr. Eugenie Scott of the National Council for Science Education, a pro-evolution group backing the Dover parents.

"It's a political and religious movement that's trying to insinuate itself into the public schools," she said.

But the American public appears to back the school district.

At least 31 states are taking steps to teach alternatives to evolution. A CBS poll last November found 65 percent of Americans favor teaching creationism as well as evolution while 37 percent want creationism taught instead of evolution.

Fifty-five percent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form, the poll found.

Earlier this month a top Roman Catholic cardinal critical of evolution branded scientific opponents of intelligent design intolerant and said there need not be a conflict between Darwin's and Christian views of life's origins.

Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, a top Church doctrinal expert and close associate of Pope Benedict, said Darwin's theory did not clash with a belief in God so long as scientists did not assert that pure chance accounted for everything from "the Big Bang to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony."

35

Do you see the average Jehovahs Witness as a victim...?

by trevor in

i think most of us appreciate the difference between the tyrannical watchtower society and the average sheep like followers who make up the congregations.

we have been jehovahs witnesses so we know how brainwashed they are.

i am interested in knowing how you feel towards jehovahs witnesses individually and whether you hold them accountable.

SeymourButts

Victims, yes, but so are others that put their faith in mythical stories and dreams of an afterlife. JWs are no more victims than are Christians.

2

Looking for quote

by startingover in

i have read a quote from the wt concerning the importance of a critical examination of your religion.

i have looked on quotes site and didn't find the one i remembered.. anyone have a good quote they can share with me?.

i have a loyal dub wife that keeps telling me i am being "critical" of the jw's.

SeymourButts

watchtower 8-1-01 The Bible encourages us to check our beliefs against what it teaches. (1 John 4:1) Millions of readers of this magazine can testify that doing so has added purpose and stability to their lives. So be like the noble-minded Beroeans. ‘Carefully examine the Scriptures daily’ before you decide what to believe. (Acts 17:11) Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to help you to do this. Of course, it is your decision as to what you want to believe. However, it is the course of wisdom to make sure that your beliefs are shaped, not by human wisdom and desires, but, rather, by God’s revealed Word of truth.—1 Thessalonians 2:13; 5:21.

wt...12-1-95 Even if we feel that our traditional religious beliefs are based on the Bible, all of us should take the time to examine them carefully.

wt 2-1-82 Today hundreds of millions of people use the Christian “label” or “signature.” Maybe you are one of them. But how can you tell if you are a genuine Christian, the real thing? First, check your conduct and beliefs against the Bible record of the teachings of Jesus Christ and his apostles. Next, examine how early Christians applied those teachings. Thirdly, analyze your own form of religion to see if it fits the mold that Christ set. Now ask yourself, Is my religion genuine Christianity? Do I practice it?

Here are a just a few....I can find many more if you need them