I asked a lot of these same questions, and of course at some point the answer was that I had to accept these things and that god could not really be understood by my imperfect little mind.
The old testament used to really trip me up. God was responsible for the deaths of so many cute little lambs and babies. The Sodom and Gomorrah story is a good example. I remember asking my mother if there were any little kids there, and was it really fair not to give them a chance. There are tons of others. No one could ever really justify those things to my satisfaction.
Posts by ivy
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53Examples of JW evasiveness/dishonesty
by BONEZZ inbeing born and bred into the borg i always felt it was the "truth" but i wasn't the one who measured up i was not good enough to be a dub.
but i also had nagging questions that went unanswered by the most learned elders...or at least not answered to my satisfaction.
their "answers" were in fact not really answers but side-steps or attempts to mis-direct my question into an area they could answer.. an example...it always bothered me that we could not examine the contents of what opposers put out.
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ivy
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81
The Second Amendment
by Englishman ini like guns.
i like the feel of them.
i like the fine engineering too.
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ivy
Isn't it hight time that the second amendment was amended?
I truly agree. I wish I could bring back some of the original writers of that esteemed document to get their opinion on this matter. They had some very good reasons for the Second Amendment, but I think we have to compare the spirit that it was written in against the practical implications of guns as they are today. Our govenor recently vetoed a bill that would allow guns in bars (unless bar owners posted a sign against it). The thing that scares me is that the bill made it that far.
The issue reminds me a little of a well esteemed book that says we must not partake of blood, and some people who use that ancient document as a reason not to take advantage of current medical advances. -
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microphones were the last straw
by ivy init wasn't the big stuff that made me decide i could never go back, it was one little thing.
i have been thinking about my journey out of "the truth", and i think i can pin-point the last straw.. .
i had been out for years, but always thinking that if i got my head together someday i would be good enough to go back.
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ivy
The term cognitive dissonance was familiar, but I had to look it up. So relevent, to me personally and the whole JW institution. Now I'll have to learn more about it. Thanks for adding to my ever increasing reading list tetrapod.
My early childhood JW education and feminist college education are in constant combat.
Facial hair and adultery seem to be common themes here. Is that beard thing arbitrary, or is there a scriptual reason for it? Is it true world wide? At least you guys got to handle the mics, although I'm sure I would have done a better job.
It seems that elders are completly incabable of handling a situation of adultery with any compassion or even intellegence. I remember my mother went to the elders with suspicions that my father was having an affair, which he was, but that didn't come out until much later. It's true that she had no proof, but they actually suggested that she was accusing him because she had a guilty conscience. My mother is the closest thing to a perfect JW I have ever met. She went to them for guidence and they accused her. Wish she had the good sense to be "stumbled" by that. -
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microphones were the last straw
by ivy init wasn't the big stuff that made me decide i could never go back, it was one little thing.
i have been thinking about my journey out of "the truth", and i think i can pin-point the last straw.. .
i had been out for years, but always thinking that if i got my head together someday i would be good enough to go back.
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ivy
It wasn't the big stuff that made me decide I could never go back, it was one little thing. I have been thinking about my journey out of "the truth", and I think I can pin-point the last straw.
I had been out for years, but always thinking that if I got my head together someday I would be good enough to go back. In the meantime I went to college, an all women college. Sure, the education should have been enough, but while there I worked in the AV/media department. I was setting up PA systems for huge events, hooking up computers, I even soldered mic connections in the wall.
Then I accepted an invitation from my parents to attend a meeting, and I noticed that only men (boys really) were allowed to control the microphones. Being raised JW, I should have already known about this, but I had never paid any attention. I asked my parents and learned that this was a way that young JW men could work up the ladder. I knew at that moment that this was a religion that I could never live with, simply because they wouldn't let me set up the microphones.
In the bigger picture, I know microphones are silly, and Freud would have some opinions about the whole thing.
Anyone else with examples of being "stumbled" by the little things? -
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What's the last good fantasy or scifi book that you could'nt put down?
by Leander inso what's the last fantasy/scifi book that you read that was just so good you could'nt put it down until you were done reading it?
i need a few recommendations, i'm in the mood for a good book.. for me the last really good scifi book was orson scott card's "ender's game".
for a long time i avoided this book because i thought it was aimed at a younger audience, but after hearing so many people praise it i finally took a chance on it.
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ivy
Thanks for the suggestions Leander. I'm always looking for good scifi and/or fantasy authors. I will check out the Song of Fire and Ice series
I loved the "His Dark Materials" trilogy by Philip Pullman. Don't pass that one up because it is aimed at a younger audience. -
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ivy
My son was pretty much raised in the 'truth', despite the fact that I had turned my back on it. (I know...how could I do that to him? There is a story there, but let's just say I thought I was doing the right thing at the time). There was a year or two there around the age of 8 and 9 that he was overly zealous. He turned 16 today. We talk about it a lot. I am amazed at how much healthier his outlook is then mine. He simply says he doesn't believe they have it right, he's not really sure what is right, but the whole JW thing doesn't feel right to him. I don't see any scarring.
I do think that having some strong influences that did not buy in was helpful. I wouldn't consider him to be overly skeptical. But he was attending meetings with his JW grandparents, and going home to his two moms. I have to believe that when he compared the two styles of leadership, he preferred the one that encouraged him to think for himself and make decisions based on his own observations rather then dictated by an invisible god through autocratic elders.
So maybe that is a piece of it. I wasn't really encouraged to think for myself. Everything was fed to me, and questioning was discouraged. Perhaps, somewhere along the way, questioning opens up the world of possibilities. -
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Weird Logic
by loosie inlet's hear the weirdest comment or suppossed logical thought you've ever heard a witness say.. i'll start: out in service once a sis and her son were in the same car group as i was.
he was having a nose bleed and told his mom that the blood was running down the back of his throat.
his mother said " well don't swallow it yo uknow how jehovah feels about blood don't you!".
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ivy
What a great topic. I could post for hours...
I'll limit it to two.
Father: "The Bible has been around for so long, and endured though many attempts at distruction, it must be the word of god"
Me: "Well, if I were god, I would have done all that, and still come through with a book that was easy to understand an not open to so many interpretations."
Brother: "If homosexuality was an accepted form of sexuality, we would see it in nature."
Me: "I don't see many animals driving BMW's, taking out mortgages or having vasectomies, but that hasn't stopped you." -
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WHO IS YOU?
by Terry inthe mind is what the brain does; not who you are.
the soul is an idea that would seem to have testable consequences.
specifically, if the human mind is the product of a "ghost in the machine" and not simply the result of electrochemical interactions, then the mind should not be dependent on the physical actions of the brain that houses it.
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ivy
Terry, I'm no amazing intellect, but your posts always push me to try harder. I thank you for that.
There have been plenty of studies on this particular subject. Yes, one brain injury can wipe out years of nurture. It can make you a different person. The brain is our central processing unit. I really like the comparison to an operating system.identity, personality and behavior...are unified with the brain
I agree with that, but it does scare me. Will too much study into those realms lead us to "Stepford"? I'm pretty happy with my identity, personality and behavior as it is.
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DA and DF
by ivy init has been a long time since i checked up on the practices of the jw's, and through this discussion i keep hearing posts on da letters.. i was da in an announcement at a meeting back in 1988 or 1989. it was basically the same as being df, but i hadn't been baptized.
a few months later the borg came out and said that it couldn't be done to someone who wasn't baptized.
so they discussed the change, and then at the end of the meeting said, the matter with ..... has been delt with.. suddenly, everyone was talking to me again, they even wanted to plan a baby shower.. what is the policy now?
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ivy
It has been a long time since I checked up on the practices of the JW's, and through this discussion I keep hearing posts on DA letters.
I was DA in an announcement at a meeting back in 1988 or 1989. It was basically the same as being DF, but I hadn't been baptized. A few months later the borg came out and said that it couldn't be done to someone who wasn't baptized. So they discussed the change, and then at the end of the meeting said, The matter with ..... has been delt with.
Suddenly, everyone was talking to me again, they even wanted to plan a baby shower.
What is the policy now? -
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What stupid things did you confess to the elders?
by sweet tee ini forced my husband to confess to the elders that we were having os!
damn that was stupid ... he was great at it .
i also made him tell the brothers that he changed a number on our temporary license tag (don't laugh!
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ivy
By the time my parents dragged me in front of the elders, I was so guilty of so many things that the poor men would have gone into shock had I actually had any inclination to spill my guts.
Instead, at a very young age of 17, I told them that I was a citizen of the United States and I take the 5th. When they asked me what that meant, I said, "It means that I don't have to tell you or anyone else about anything. You have no power over me".