Perhaps Craig another element of physical reaction to sever pain is possible in the case of Jesus' experiance. There are recorded stories of early Persian Baha'is that were tortured by the Mullas by having their skin cut and lighted candles shoved into the flesh where they burn down until the burning wax seared the body. A victim would have as many as twenty candles lit on his body at one time trying to enduce a recantation of faith. Survivors testified that the pain was innitially unbearable but after a brief period all sensation went away and it was almost like an "out-of-body" experiance seeing themselves being dragged through the streets lit up like a christmas tree yet feeling nothing. I don't know if it was the product of being God-intoxicated or another psychological reaction akin to shock that literally protected them from enduring extended agony, but I would guess that both might be at play in a synergistic response. Just a thought. carmel
Posts by Carmel
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22How did Jesus suffer?
by onacruse inin jambon1's thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/128929/1.ashx i suggested the possibility that jesus was not required by scripture, nor necessarily described in scripture, as "suffering" in the physical sense of bodily pain.. i specifically had in mind hebrews 2:18: "...he himself has suffered..." the greek word used here is pascho, which has a general meaning of "to be affected by a thing, whether good or bad.
" thus, in the compound form sympatheo (whence the english 'sympathy'), the sense is "compassion, fellow-feeling.
" this word is subsequently used in regard to jesus in hebrews 4:15: "...not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses..." again, the word "weaknesses" (greek astheneia) means simply "without strength," and does not necessarily include the thought of physical pain.. in isaiah 53:4 it is said that "he...is pained for us..." (lxx), and the greek word is odunao, meaning "pain of body or mind; sorrow, grief," and is also used in a 'positive' sense in the scriptures (positive in the sense that physical pain is not necessarily included as an aspect of the experience).. this is an admittedly a limited initial examination, but if the postulate holds, then it would present a somewhat different perspective about jesus than i previously held.. craig.
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57
Jesus Christ, Michael the Archangel does it really matter?
by unbaptized injesus christ, michael the archangel does it really matter?.
because at the end of the day he's still our lord and saviour.
he died on a stake for our sins.
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Carmel
Personally I feel He "Lived" and taught for us. That He died is rather inconsequential, and whether or not it was a stake, cross, or by musket can't mean a hill of beans. His "sacrafice" was not dieing, but the abuse He endured for the teachings He brought. carmel
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22
Who is your Devil?
by Lumptard inwho or what is the devil to you now that you are out/fading out of the wts?
has your opinion of the devil changed?
do you still beleive that satan is real?
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Carmel
My ego! carm
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Truth
by thebiggestlie ini imagine part of the draw of the jws is the fact that they claim to have all the answers and the ultimate truth.
it's true they seen to on the outside provide many "answers" to many questions but now that i know these answers aren't the absolute truth that i once thought they were my mind is now open to a whole new world of ideas and theories and explanations.
assuming that logically there is only one absolute truth in the universe (that in itself is a huge assumption but bare with me) then it is easy to get tied down and overwelmed by the shear volume of differing info and ideas available to mankind.
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Carmel
My personal search for "truth" as I anticiptated it to be as an exiting JW was confined by the narrow perspective inherant in JW upbringing. After several years I had to leave it all and concentrate on my formal education in the biological sciences with meanderings into the humanities and a little chemistry thrown in. I always had a need though to measure what I was learning with what I thought a world view should be as it pertained to "religion". I could no longer confine myself to the perspective of mainline Christianity that saw itself as the only harbinger of "truth" and the only path to salvation. As my exposure to other cultures and belief systems broadened, I could only accept a paradigm of religion that allowed for all of humanity to be in the tent of "God's children". I've found that belief system and find that "truth" has taken on a broader deeper meaning than I had ever imagined as a JW. I like where I am in that regard. Truth will always be revealing itself to me as I journey through life. I believe that is as it should be. We should be life-long learners. carmel
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7
Why is it so hard to change old habits?
by I quit! inmonday i started the healthy diet i had been planning to start since the new year began.
this week i also went out and bought some financial magazines to help me review what i was doing and see if i could get any good ideas.
so today, thursday i sit down and start thumbing through money magazine.
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Carmel
Different strokes for different folks, but for years my wife and I tried to diet and never really succeeded until we joined Weight Watchers together. We began by counting "points" and found that we had to cut our portions in half from what we were used to consuming, then resist the temptation to have seconds. The third strategy was to drink a 16 oz glass of water about ten minutes before your lunch and dinner. You find the portions are plenty adequate and after a couple of weeks the pounds start to drop off. Your metabolism change takes that long, at least for those of us over 50 and if you are patient, you'll lose one to two pounds a week. We started last summer, late July and both have lost over 30 lbs. Weighing in every other day at home is important as a reinforcement plus the weekly weigh in at the meetings. I found the meetings a real test, but then I'm not into some of the conclusions that 90 women had convincing themselves they shouldn't have to experiance hungar or feel "deprived". I learned to enjoy hunger and enjoyed the deprivation too! It meant I was accomplishing something, changing habits and getting skinny at the same time.. Eight pounds to go and I won't have to pay membership fees anymore!!! Good luck! carmel
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15
A LONG HUG!
by Dansk inthis is really interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6338751.stm.
italy mystery of prehistoric hug the skeletons' bones were discovered interlaced archaeologists in italy have unearthed two skeletons thought to be 5,000 to 6,000 years old, locked in an embrace.. the pair from the neolithic period were discovered outside mantua, about 40km (25 miles) south of verona.
the pair, almost certainly a man and a woman, are thought to have died young as their teeth were mostly intact, said chief archaeologist elena menotti.
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Carmel
Check to see if there are any remains of a Snickers bar between there faces! Might just have been rehearsing for the next series of superbowl commercials when lightning struck... See, I can project too!! carmel
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Carmel
Can I reserve a deck suite? I prefer one that overlooks the on-deck swimming pool! carmel
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Elder lost privilages due to 1 Timothy 3:1-7. Why?
by RULES & REGULATIONS in1 timothy 3:1-7 reads:.
if any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work.2the overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach,3not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money,4a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness;5(if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of gods congregation?
)6not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the devil.7moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall into reproach and a snare of the devil.. .
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Carmel
Seems to me it is the "reverse original sin" doctrin. You inherit badness from your kids! Wonder how many privledges Adam has lost over the years..... carmel
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15
Went to Church this Morning
by Undecided inmy wife and grandaughter went to church with me this morning.
i really would like to believe in god and christ but it all comes from the bible and the first scripture that was referred to was a contridiction.. 1 sam.
15:29 says,"he will not feel regrets, for he is not an earthling man so as to feel regrets.".
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Carmel
Actually all the worlds major religions were the producto of a "man" who claimed to be the representative of God at different times and locations around the planet. None of them were interested in contoling, or inflicting harm on humanity, in fact they claimed to bring a message of guidance and direction for humanity to save itself from itself. It's been the followers of these spiritual giants that have turned the teachings into dogmas and doctrins of fear and control, distortions that have played into the hands of egotistical ones bent on seizing power over the rest of us. If I were you, I'd take a step back from emersion in the bible and look at the worlds other faiths, read some of their scripture and learn of the history of those religions and see what patterns emerge. At some point you will answer some of your questions about the bible and how it fits into the whole gigsaw puzzle of humanities collective growth from infancy to where we are now. I wish you well. carmel
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Does anyone live on a warm Island or in the Keys?
by Asheron inevery year about this time the wife and i have our yearly talk about selling everything and moving to a tropical location.
we are getting more and more serious about this as the years go by.
we have even made a financial plan.. one of the possible destinations are the caymans because of its openess to other nationalities.
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Carmel
Wifey and I are checking out Costa Rica for a possible retirement location... carmel