HOT DAMN ALLAN F.!!! Thanks for that terrific exposé of watchtower BS!! When you see it all laid out like a laundry list it makes a person squirm with embarassment to have ever been a part of such a stupid belief system. I did not know about a whole lot of the smarmy jw nonsense pf the past until I got a computer and started reading this forum. I had my own convictions of the worthlessness of the jw con, but all the actual evidence I've read here has just amazed me no end. Thanks to Barb Anderson too for her tireless work on behalf of real TRUTH, I e-mailed the PBS site to request a more balanced view of the jw picture a while back, but when it was shown that the film maker had a jw background I didn't have a good feeling about the final outcome. If it plays out the way I suspect, then we will have to storm their doors with calls and e-mails of protest all over again.
zulukai
JoinedPosts by zulukai
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Producer of KNOCKING posts at my guest list, Barbara Anderson replies
by Dogpatch inthe following was posted at my guest list the other day, by a producer of a new documentary that is pro-witness and may go out on pbs.
i'm joel engardio, director of the project.
joel .
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Learning surprising things about the jws
by greendawn inafter you left the jws and entered your post wts era what sort of things did you learn about them that you found surprising?
there are some recent jws that haven't even heard of russell or even rutherford let alone of their objectionable conduct especially that of rutherford.
or they don't know anything about malawi and mexico, the ray franz incident and the witchhunt of the early 80's, or the organ transplant ban.
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zulukai
When I first studied with the dubs I was never told about all the whacko stuff that happened in the early days of the religion. Over time a few things would leak out and someone would dismiss it all as old news and say "the light keeps getting brighter all the time", and we don't think about the early days much etc. etc. You've all heard the spin. I left 30 years ago terribly disallusioned and badly treated which was proof enough for me that this religion was a hoax. But I have to tell you this web site has been the single most informative thing I have ever read. I knew NOTHING about the Mexico-Malawi thing or the changes in the blood doctine and I have sat here many atime with my jaw in my lap. I did get C of C where a lot of the shocking info came from and reading it was gut wrenching too. When it's all laid out like this on an active web site with so many links to other informative sites HOW can anyone NOT learn the real Truth about that sinister con. THANK YOU to all the researchers on here!! Everytime I log on I learn something. I never fail to be amazed at the courage of the many who struggle with knowing they were right to leave, and yet are treated as dead by their dub families. Can't thank you enough for letting us know how you do it.
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Back from the DC
by jula71 infirst they should have changed "godly obedience" to "society obedience".
i have never heard obey the gb pushed so hard in all my years as i dub.
it was amazing.
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zulukai
Carol your story is SO familiar, and so sad. Were you one of those bright eyed kids that got up on platforms at CA's and DC's and told everyone how you were being OBEDIENT to the Organization and NOT going to go to college even though you had been offered a scholarship to the university of your choice? (OBEDIENCE to the Borg has ALWAYS been a part of every assembly I ever went to even if it wasn't the main theme,) I remember many assemblies where these brow-beaten young kids got near standing ovations of approval for throwing their lives away. It used to sicken me how the parents of these kids could allow this. But more and more you see the jw machine riding roughshod over people's lives in the name of loyalty to a man-made concept. I hope more and more of the young people start to rebel against this crap. I went back to school later in life too, best thing I ever did. Have had a life,travelled and gave my two girls a heads-up on having their own careers.
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Back from the DC
by jula71 infirst they should have changed "godly obedience" to "society obedience".
i have never heard obey the gb pushed so hard in all my years as i dub.
it was amazing.
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zulukai
I posted this little story before on another thread, but it happened just last weekend and I think it's very telling. My JW brother has never been an organization man, never been an elder, but he was very cold to me when I left and has over the years been boorish to me on several occasions. Last weekend there was an assembly in Chilliwack, BC which he and his family attended. Our family, all non-dubs including me, had a big family BBQ for the occasion of my granddaughter's high school graduation. It also happened to be my birthday. My brother and his wife and three kids arrived and we all mingled and talked. I haven't seen this family for four years. My brother gets a plate of food and comes right over to where I am sitting and out of the blue (AND fresh from an assembly where higher education has been bashed the entire time) proceeds to tell me that he now believes the "old system" isn't going to end anytime soon and the world is now structured so that kids have to get an education for jobs that pay well, have benefits and retirement plans. I nearly fell over. Something major has changed and both he and his wife have obviously come to a crossroads. I would have loved to further the conversation, but the time wasn't right that particular weekend. I look around at my family and even in other generations there were highly gifted people who made something out of themselves because they had to, were driven to excel by their apptitudes and thirst for knowlege. And my brothers kids give every indication that the family genes will not be denied. I am overjoyed that he is taking this stand. I knew something was up when his oldest daughter was allowed to enter nursing school last year. Now this girl feels closer to me because we share this bond. But to hear a hard-core dub go against one of the most cherished pieces of Borg-drivel just made my day.
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OMG! When does it end? Cognitive Dissonance is pandemic!
by upside/down ini just had a "sister" leave our house... she was getting her hair done, by my wife.... she is married to a demoted-elder and is very r&f... her poor hubby has been on the receiving end of so much abuse from the borg... and they "don't understand it".. i've been sowing seeds of "new light" with her from jwd and even though their sitch just keeps getting worse and worse and her hubby just keeps getting more and more depressed... she actuall laid on me today the old " but where else can we go?
only the wts has the truth".. i thought i was going to puke.... she even laid out the old " don't forsake the gathering of yourselves"...proof we need to be at the meetings.
even though she admits that that is where the source of all the abuse eminates.
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zulukai
Thanks James for that excellent article!!! I have never read it before and the part Tetra pulled out...wow !! I feel better just reading all that. This explains why so many like the people mentioned at the beginning can't pull themselves free. There's also a definate element of what happens to people in abusive relationships..the slavish cowed under belief that they MUST be at fault, they MUST deserve the abuse because they have done something wrong. Or the flip side of the scenario...oh well it's all I've got, it's all I know. It's the same mentality as the abused wife who has no where to turn, no education and no support system. The dubs I've known are cemented into the very same conviction that they cannot survive without the organization, even though it is choking the life they have now right out of them. I count myself lucky to have had the ability to see behind the mask. Then one day I became a problem to them for leaving an abusive husband and that was it. The whole greasy pile of shite just toppled over and that was that. It shook me to the core, and the ensuing insights were not easy to take. But I did it and I survived to have a much better life than I ever had as a dumb agent of the Borg.
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Does anyone Love Jehovah anymore?
by defd in.
i know people have left for people issues but what about jehovah god and jesus?
what have they done?.
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zulukai
In all my many years out of the Borg I have often wondered about that story where Jesus rebuked someone for saying they believed in God...."You believe in God do you?...The demons believe and shudder." This is how I view the name Jehovah now because it's tied up with so many negative experiences and braindead ignorance. I still can't admit to anyone that I used to be a witness, can't even use the name Jehovah's witnesses either. It sickens me. I do believe in a creator, I revel in the great beauty of this planet. I know life can be beautiful too. But at the same time I wonder until my mind aches why people have to endure such unspeakable suffering and for what? Just don't get it anymore. And just how long does it take to prove the so-called issue of "universal sovreignty"....how many countless billions of people have lived and died in the two thousand years since Christ appeared on earth? What's it all about anyway....NO BODY KNOWS. I feel shaken to the core even after all these years out to see the evidence of the folly of religion, of making predictions and waiting for the grand finale of this world on the say-so of fanatics and religious fruitcakes and here we still sit none the wiser about anything the Bible fortold. I still beleive in God but I don't get why we have to suffer like this. I used to feel so sure of all that I was taught once upon a time, now I don't know what to believe.
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My brother wants to talk to me about why I left the org. He is JW.
by avengers inas many of you know i live in holland.. i'm visiting the us now and my brother who is now at the convention.
in tacoma wa wants to talk to me about the reason why i left the org.. actually i'd like to, but what i'm afraid of is that it will turn into an argument,.
he and his wife are really gung ho dubbies and .
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zulukai
Scully: I have used that very same argument with all my former witness friends and my family and the effect of it has always been the same: stunned stares, embarassment, then angry disbelief that jw's EVER did or said those things. They know I'm not a liar so they say that I must have misunderstood what was said or done. The brainwash is so intense, as we know, that facts and even proof of what happened just skip off the hard shell of their locked-down minds. But at some time in every JW's experience they come across personal evidence that there is something very wrong with their picture. The fact that people get angry when faced with a truth means you've struck a nerve. My brother used to talk down to me and openly sneered at me for leaving the religion. But as I mentioned in the post prior to yours, he's now going against the religion's BS in regard to education and this is a HUGE breakthrough....as was his admissionn that he now believes this "old system" is not going to end anytime soon, if ever. I could see in his demeanor that something very significant has happened to his thinking. Avengers brother could very well have some doubts of his own and this could be the opportunity to widen the breach. If all he wants is to bash him over the head with guilt and self-righteousness then Avengers knows how to deal with that I'm sure. But your excellent suggestion has always been my favourite battle strategy, what goes around, comes around.
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My brother wants to talk to me about why I left the org. He is JW.
by avengers inas many of you know i live in holland.. i'm visiting the us now and my brother who is now at the convention.
in tacoma wa wants to talk to me about the reason why i left the org.. actually i'd like to, but what i'm afraid of is that it will turn into an argument,.
he and his wife are really gung ho dubbies and .
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zulukai
Wish you lots of luck. My brother asked me some time after I left why I'd done so and I remembered to remain calm and focused as several people here have suggested. This works best and you must refuse to get tangled up in emotions and say things you later regret. I had to bite my tongue several times because my sister-in-law who sat in on the discission was such a ninny, so programmed and immature. They did listen, for the most part and I could tell my story shocked them as they sat there like two deer in the headlights and did not talk down to me or sneer at what I had to say. I just came back from a week with my family in Vancouver and saw this brother and his wife for the first time in four years. I was dreading it but something interesting happened. Not only has my JW brother allowed his daughter to set her sights on a nursing career,which involves four years of college study now, he came and sat next to me and told me out of the blue that he now sees that "this old system is not going to end anytime soon" and he has told his kids that they all will get a good education because in today's world everyone needs a job that pays well and gives them a retirement plan. When he said the part about the system not ending soon I interjected "maybe never!" and he just nodded in agreement!!! So you never know what is perking away inside these people. Something has definately snapped for my brother and his wife and I for one was overjoyed!!.......You never know, something may have been bothering your brother and he just has to find out where you are coming from. At the very least you might say something that hits a nerve with him that starts the ball rolling. Let us know what happens!!
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Does anybody else feel this way?
by boy@crossroads ina little background........ been fading for more than a year now.
i think i have done a good job of transitioning out of the borg.
i am now comfortable with many of the taboos i was raised to fear.
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zulukai
When I left the Borg a long time ago I was struck by very frightening feelings of unreality, like I was WATCHING life instead of participating in it. I read every newspaper headline of doom and disaster as 'Proof" of the coming END, just as I had been PROGRAMMED to do. People, REAL people with all their warts and quirks hanging out took some getting used to, because all I had ever associated with were cleverly or morbidly deceptive automatons faking it lest their real selves got out. I knew I had been brainwashed and had to make an effort to get with the program of my own reality, life in REAL TIME, living NOW, not in some remote galaxy far, far away. It was a challenge to get a grip on just being free from a scripted response to everything. You already show great promise in that you know there is another way to "be" and you will find it. Take your time. I just started talking with others, asking them about themselves, leaving the door open to experiences and thoughts. One thing I knew I had to do was stop judging everything and everybody the way I was taught. This didn't mean I had to go against my conscience, but that I had to relax and trust the process of the world around me. People are what they are and have absolute right to make their own choices, end of story. Once I got the hang of being myself it was exhilarating. I wish the same discovery for YOU!!!
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JW's are LOSING IT
by GetBusyLiving inat one of the last bookstudies i ever attended i heard a comment that really struck home to me how desperate these people really are getting, to the edge of insanity.
an older woman commented, "you can tell the end is coming.. its in the air.. you can feel it.. there is something in the air.. times are just.. different" and the whole time she was manically glancing around the room.
the conductor agreed with her.
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zulukai
The last time I talked with a jw friend ( who now doesn't speak to me because I am NEVER coming back to the shiteness religion) she was babbling away about the end having to come soon. If she said it once she said it ten times in the course of our brief conversation. I was struck by her flat facial expression and the look in her eyes. It was fear, plain and simple. They cling to their desperate hopes for the promised New World Order and repeat the pathetic mantra over and over: the end is coming any day now, any day now. I'm sure a lot of them have the fearful suspicion that it's all a lie, that something is terribly wrong, but they CAN'T LET GO....like the drowning person can't let go of the straw. It makes me ill. I feel both contempt and pity for a lot of them, but I feel nothing but loathing for the shitheads at the top for their cynical, evil manipulations.