Posts by isaacaustin

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa

We seemed to have reached a bit of common ground and a point of reasoning but you have not replied to my question ending my last thread. I will repost it here. Read thru this below and answer my last paragraph....

Reniaa
You say you disagree with shunning and would not partake in that. Do you realize that that would preclude you from rejoining the JWs (assuming you are truly as you claim) or if you are active would lead to your expulsion?

Hi isaac

Erm technically it could be! in practise I think it is unlikely

Reniaa, the room for ones own discretion on the treatment of dfed person's (so long a snothing spiritual is discussed) extends only to family- not friends. Your association with a dfed person not of your family will lead to your expulsion (if it becomes known). There is no "use your discretion" there...especially on having lunch.

At my last congregation before I left the org I only knew of one defellowshipped girl and she used to sit at the back I always said hi to her as she came in and I never got told off for it

As long as kept to a hello you may or may not be counseled.

and did have coffee with her in town

DEFINITE no-no! If revealed will lead to counseling...if not followed will lead to further action.

I still chat to her occasionally.

Will lead to being counseled or more unless it is a family member.

I might believe the Jws doctrines but I've always been very independant in myself I love jehovah and I know that disfellowshipping wouldn't phase me, I'd just do my time and keep my prayers to Jehovah.

Then why do you need the org. You have admitted that they practice dfing in a very unChristlike way that you disagree with. Jesus said that his disciples would be recognized by love among themselves. Do not answer this by stating other religions go to war. This stands or falls on its own merit. You have admitted this does not show love, thus they are not Christ's disciples. You yourself said "He can read hearts and he alone knows that I love him and his son, Gods anger is what worries me more, disfellowshipping is nothing compared to that to me."

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa
You say you disagree with shunning and would not partake in that. Do you realize that that would preclude you from rejoining the JWs (assuming you are truly as you claim) or if you are active would lead to your expulsion?

Hi isaac

Erm technically it could be! in practise I think it is unlikely

Reniaa, the room for ones own discretion on the treatment of dfed person's (so long a snothing spiritual is discussed) extends only to family- not friends. Your association with a dfed person not of your family will lead to your expulsion (if it becomes known). There is no "use your discretion" there...especially on having lunch.

At my last congregation before I left the org I only knew of one defellowshipped girl and she used to sit at the back I always said hi to her as she came in and I never got told off for it

As long as kept to a hello you may or may not be counseled.

and did have coffee with her in town

DEFINITE no-no! If revealed will lead to counseling...if not followed will lead to further action.

I still chat to her occasionally.

Will lead to being counseled or more unless it is a family member.

I might believe the Jws doctrines but I've always been very independant in myself I love jehovah and I know that disfellowshipping wouldn't phase me, I'd just do my time and keep my prayers to Jehovah.

Then why do you need the org. You have admitted that they practice dfing in a very unChristlike way that you disagree with. Jesus said that his disciples would be recognized by love among themselves. Do not answer this by stating other religions go to war. This stands or falls on its own merit. You have admitted this does not show love, thus they are not Christ's disciples.

He can read hearts and he alone knows that I love him and his son, Gods anger is what worries me more, disfellowshipping is nothing compared to that to me.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Outlaw, she always runs when cornered...then returns with a vague post or tries to lash out with a new avenue of WT reasoning.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa

You say you disagree with shunning and would not partake in that. Do you realize that that would preclude you from rejoining the JWs (assuming you are truly as you claim) or if you are active would lead to your expulsion?

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

hi isaac

disfellowshipping is unchristian?

I meant the shunning that the WT inserts into their disfellowshipping....

shunning is too well you must know from past threads I don't approve of the shunning I won't be practising it myself but I reserve the right to how much contact I have with someone whose values no longer reflect the bible.

What you just state dabove is the christian view. We agree there.

The bible outlines expelling situations in the nt lol are you going to make me find them? You can argue that Jws put them into practise wrong but you cannot argue they exist in the bible.

Agreed- willful practice of sin by a brother. Agreed. Would not include the conscientious objection to certain doctrines or teachings.

If I generalised on the holy spirit thing it's only because so many have on here said those sort of words on this very forum. that 'holy spirit has set them free' and they can serve god correctly now and by that they usually mean Jesus. another thing I don't understand about trinity it has a teaching called complementary subordination in refering to Jesus meaning Jesus always considers himself inferior to his father while still being in nature God but in practise trinity makes people put jesus into a superior position.

Jesus is eternally submissive to the father- yes Reniaa. And in nature he is God in that he sahres the same nature as his Father. Jesus is not put into a superior position by Trinitarians. He is obeyed and followed, emphasis is put on him by the command of his head- the Father. Matt 17 at the transfiguration- This is my Son- Listen to him!

reniaa

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

hi isaac

so you just sweepingly says 'thats corporate america' and you do agree with my points but you do not accept as a complex organisation (and involves a lot of corporate aspects) Jws can suffer from the same things?

JW's suffer from some of the same things as corp America...yes. All churches do in some way or another. However, how are they handled? In the WT it is swept under the rug- such as the recent sex abuse scandal. Was that handled in the same way Jesus would have wanted? WOuld Jesus have hadnled the Malawi situation the way it was handles, while allowing a double standard to exist in Mexico? I think not. He wants mercy, not sacrifice.

I think this is really a question of authority, if people lose their faith in a religion then they no longer think the leaders have the right to lead.

You also call it a false prophet actually coming from you isaac I accept it, you believe in trinity and Jws are a false prophet to the trinity and always will be,

Being a false prophet in God's name Reniaa...it is very well documented what the WT has said and predicted. And being a flase prophet, as you call it, to the Trinity would include their denying Jesus as did the Jews of his own day. What did jesus say about that generation?

its only fair since Jws have no hesitation in calling christendom a lot worse :S

Oh I agree. The JWs sure have no problem speaking out against other religions....such as the sex abuse scandal in the Cathloic church while they had their own scandal going on at the same time.

Reniaa

thx for imput I may not reply to all but I do read them.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

erm...pope cough cough, mormons cough cough, scientology cough Baptist, methodist, Quakers and anyway even if they say all christian faiths lead to God (and only the more modern ones do) they make it a 'Jesus only Club', and the wordage used when people talk on Holy spirit..."I got holy spirit now jesus talks to me so I now know everything' they are saying there sole communication with God is all they have to listen too this is a very born again thing.

You have named a few that claim to be God's channel of communication. Baptist can be excluded from you list. I go to a Baptist church and will tell you they in no way claim to be God's sole channel of communication. Whenever one of the pastors gives his interpretation of something not clearly defined he will always qualify it as such. Regarding your quote of "I got holy spirit and I know all.."...that is not the attitude I see among my Christian friends. That is called a generalization, probably a prejudiced one, on your part Reniaa.

I think the wt is very very strict

Yes, exactly like the religous leaders and lawyers Jesus denounced quite strongly as Matt 23 and Luke as well. You may want to read this reniaa. I can think of no more a direct fulfillment of those words in the WT today.

and this will stand out more as other faiths cave under the pressure of public opinion, like I said I can see them becoming one of the last few religions that insist on keeping the fornication, adultery etc biblical commandments they are certainly the only one that even does the blood one despite it being one of the few commandments that started right from noah not just the moses law.

All other religons do not cave under public opinion as the WT has told you they do. My church does not approve of fornication/adulktery..etc. They speak out on it. We do not practice the unChrisitan shunning of offenders as does the WT. We reach out and encourage others to confess...to come clean to the Lord. Blood- THE WATCHTOWER IS THE ONLY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION THAT IS WRONG ON THIS. THE ONLY ONE! I had to make that big so perhaps you will see the emplhasis on it. The WT has become killers due to this. The command to Noah was simply not to eat the animals while they were still alive. A simply reading of this without WT blinders will show that.

I don't try and defend all it's policies I think there are many things that could be improved and the dec 15 wt I saw on here has put goodworks clearly on the same footing as ministry I hope this means people will help those in need more.

Whether this is to bring about a change or not remains to be seen. I doubt the org is changing towards an emphasis to good works as in charity. We shall see.

I only say that when I look at all the faiths this particular one for me follows the bible more accurately

such as thru false prophecying, rules that parallel the religious leaders of Jesus day, i.e. holidays, birthdays, blood, disfellowshipping/shunning, negative connotation on education, association with nonJWs...

than most and I don't have to get my head around a composite God.

No, you don't have to. You instead misidentify Jesus. You have the wrong Jesus Reniaa.

Reniaa

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa said...... "and if I have one gripe with this site it is the exaggeration and constant need to put the worst spin on things happening within the wts but I guess that comes with the territory."....... isn't that the what its all about? This is Reniaa's territory. She is putting in special pioneer hours by the looks of things! Yes, let's go with Reniaa's tactics. She will start off with the Trinity, or something similar, that depending on someone's theological perspective they will see one way or the other. She will then put the twist on this and call it an outright lie...and then make all other religions out to be wrong and then admit that possibly the WT has some small issue but all others are majorly wrong. She will do the same on Christmas, the cross or other issues where it requires a WT interpreation to reach that conclusion and denounce all other religions for failing on what she terms as 'biggies' while arguing that the WT has all the 'biggies' right and simply needs tweaking on minor issues. Again, on what authority she proclaims some shortcomings 'biggies' while the ones of the WT are 'gnats' is comepletely without basis.

49

My marriage is falling apart!

by sacolton in

jw
friends

over breakfast, my wife and i discussed the feeling of distance between us.

i haven't kept her for going to meetings or anything of the sort.

yet, since i've left the organization - she has been more distant from me.

isaacaustin

Yeah, Sacolton. My wife has given in on birthdays...but no way in hell she'd go for Halloween or Christmas. Wow.

421

jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.

by reniaa in

i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.

17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.

"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?

isaacaustin

I think it is safe to say Joseph does not have the answer for you ellderwho. So he ran.