Posts by tmo1965

19

Which countries do the anointed come from ?

by aligot ripounsous in

a couple of jw friends came yo visit us today and we had dinner together.. at some stage in the conversation, i said that i do understand that an increasing number of jws from developing countries take emblems at memorials because, if we consider that europe and the us compose, together, about 700 million people, there is no good reason why nearly the whole lot of the little flock should be chosen from one tenth of humankind.

it is therefore all too normal that jws from third world counties think that they should have their fair share since jehovah id not partial.

the husband listened attentively and agreed but his wife probably found that we were engaging on a slippery ground and she shortened the visit.

tmo1965

firstfruits...the word is plural and implies a gathering (the 144,000)

Tula,
You seem to infer that the firstfruits are the 144 000. Do you mean that they lived and have been resurrected (as spiritual beings I suppose) in the span of time between Jesus' stay on earth and his second coming ? Why not, after all, but there's a flaw : I checked with a couple of different versions of the Bible, (BibleGateway.com), not one of them let the reader believe that the firstfruits stand for the anointed disciples, they all read plainly that the firstfruits represent Jesus.What is this denomination that teaches something which seems to be so obviously at odd with the biblical text ?

I would like to add that the usual interpretation of "Jesus, the first fruits" is that Jesus was the 1st to be raised from the grave eternally, and transformed from mortal to immortal. (1 Cor. 15:12-58)

8

If we really lived by the rules of the bible

by kwr in

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/books/603143,jacobs101407.article.

within the first months of trying to live by the rules of the bible, a.j.

jacobs started carrying around a portable seat so as not to sit after unclean women (leviticus 15:20).

tmo1965

It's a good thing that Jesus is the one time sacrafice to deliver us from that bondage.

46

If Creationism is true explain races.

by DeViL DriVeR 76 in

so the bible speaks of how multiple languages came to be in babylon with the tower of babel, you all know the story.

ok so thats the bibles view on languages but what about races?

how are some people light skin others dark?

tmo1965

I have yet another totally different take on the question of race: There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

The concept of race is something invented by ignorant ancient people who thought that human beings who looked different than themselves belonged to a different species.

In reality, isn't this myth of "racial differences" no more than a bit more melanin or a different eye/skin color? I doubt there's a debate about how blue-eyed babies born to brown-eyed parents have mutated.

I know, I know....you're going to say that people of the same race share facial features too. OK, but why attribute that to race? If they have ancestors in common, why should it be attributed to anything but being a blood relative, albeit a distant relative?

I have to agree with you 100%. In fact, the differences between human genes is less than .1%.

46

If Creationism is true explain races.

by DeViL DriVeR 76 in

so the bible speaks of how multiple languages came to be in babylon with the tower of babel, you all know the story.

ok so thats the bibles view on languages but what about races?

how are some people light skin others dark?

tmo1965

Genetic diversity is a part of our design.

Adam and Eve probably looked like very good-looking Hebrews (educated guess), but they carried the genetic diversity sufficient for all types of skin tones, hair types, etc.

For example: the different breeds of dogs come about through crossbreeding followed by generations of inbreeding, to bring out the desired characteristics that are locked within the genetic code.

That's the point I was trying to make. Also, looking at it from funkyDerek's point of view, we would have to consider the generations between Adam and Noah AND the generations between Noah and Nimrod. At any rate, I believe that all the genetic codes were created within Adam and Eve and have been passed down through the generations.

46

If Creationism is true explain races.

by DeViL DriVeR 76 in

so the bible speaks of how multiple languages came to be in babylon with the tower of babel, you all know the story.

ok so thats the bibles view on languages but what about races?

how are some people light skin others dark?

tmo1965

That's a good question. Consider Noah and his sons. They were 1 family and within them were all the various genes that we humans have today. At the time of the Tower of Babel, God scattered the various people according to the language He gave them. Each language group migrated to different parts of the world, which I believe was one large mass at that time, but that's a different discussion. Anyway, you get a different mix of dominant genes and over time, with intermarriage between these smaller groups, the dominate genes prevail until you get the various races we have today. Add to that, adaptations to the various environments and you will get additional differences accordingly.

8

Kings of Isreal and 607/586

by GramblingMan in

can someone help me out here, i have been going back and forth with the jw study, regarding 586/607, from reading what has been written here and visiting the library.. i have been able to present what i understand.

now he is saying that the jw also were able to locate the date for the fall of jerusalem based on the kings of isreal.

i serious doubt it, he should me the list of jews kings in the "insight on the scriptures" but could tell me how they arrived at the start date for the 1st king.

tmo1965

The Bible gives specific lengths of time for the reigns of the Biblical kings, but does not give calendar dates. They didn't have calendars back then and measured time by things like the number of full moons and how long kings held their throne. However, secular historians have pretty much determined exact dates for the reigns of the Biblical kings from ancient cuneforms that have detailed information about who reigned during certain events and the position of astrological objects, like stars and planets in the sky.

As for the WTS, their dates are completely bogus. Even if you take their starting date of 539 BC, and add of the lengths of the kings' reigns based on the Biblical dates, you don't come up with 607 BC.

Here is some info about the WTS' dates:

http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/607bce-table.htm

http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/607bce.htm

http://www.disfellowshipped.org/607eng.htm

http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/babylon/babylonian_empire.html ** (I believe that the WTS had quoted (or misquoted) a source from this site to try to support their bogus dates. I'll see if I find that info for you).

4

First Easter Service

by patient in

well i did it today - having said to myself all week i would not go to a church this sunday i decided to go - it became a very moving experience for someone who does not normally get "moved"!.

after removing myself from the jws over the last few years i have started to attend a local church (nazerene - as close to non denominational as we have around here) - i stay un involved with any day to day activities just attend services 2/3 times a month - always have avoided any communion services - till today - having sat quietly by as most in attendance filed through for the wine/bread i felt moved to partake myself - i came to see that jesus had died for me and i can acknowledge this by taking the symbols - after over 30 years of being excluded/not allowed to even think of this involving me - i cried as i dipped my 1/2 inch circle of bread into the glass - returned to my seat and quietly wept - i felt so happy and yet sad too - .

i really cannot explain how i feel now today but wanted to share my days event - i am in a good place today but when things happen as today i really see the negative effects the jws had on our lives - their going beyond the written word dictating a persons daily choices is beyond excuse -.

tmo1965

Hats off to you Patient!!! That's a really big step in the right direction.

3

Bible Question...

by tan in

i have a question.

does anyone know when the first bible was printed?

is it a story of fables or stories?

tmo1965

Here's a Christian apologetics website that has a section on the Bible: http://www.carm.org/bible.htm

15

WTS still an NGO in US?

by ICBehindtheCurtain in

hi all: i came across something very interesting, in looking at this pdf there is a list of ngo's that attended for some conference on anti-semitism and guess who is on there?

if you scroll down you will find that in belgium the wts (under their european christian jehovah's witness umbrella) but if you scroll down to the us section you will find that they show up as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, so apparently as of 2005 when this conference was held, they were still an ngo, does anyone else know about this?.

http://osce.usmission.gov/cordoba/cordoba_ngos.pdf.

tmo1965

If the organization arranging for that event is part of the UN, maybe this is just a listing of non-governmental orgs thsat attended the meeting, not just orgs that are registered w/the UN.

If they are so against worldly governments, what excuse is there for them to be associated with anything even remotely like the UN? They don't allow their members to associate with the DF'd or DA'd in any fashion do they?

11

Blood Transfusion "matter of choice" for JWs

by dozy in

http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=80831&pt=n.

richard parker, a member of the jehovah`s witnesses, says that the refusal of transfusions is one of their fundamental beliefs.

based on what is written in the bible.it is not forbidden by their faith but is a matter of choice for the individual, he said.. who is richard parker - branch committee?

tmo1965

Rabbit - Been there and I watched it happen to my Mom.

Do you mind sharing what happened with your mom?