Posts by sir82

17

Was King Solomon really wise?

by VM44 in

was king solomon really wise?

the bible gives one example of his wisdom in the way that he determined which mother was the the actual mother of a baby.

a method, by the way, that involved trickery.

sir82

I once read an interpretation of the Solomon / baby / prostitutes story that went something like this:

The story was really a politcal allegory. The northern tribes were preparing to rebel following the death of David, and Solomon wanted desperately to keep the kingdom together. So he had the baby /sword/prostitute story circulated far and wide, the meaning of which was, "I am perfectly willing to use the sword to divide the nation and will fight a long, bloody civil war if necessary. This will result in the death of untold thouands, as well as the likely destruction of our young kingdom. However, if you northerners are smart, you will be willing to "give up the baby" (allow me to rule over you all). Better to live as a united nation under me than be weakened by a civil war & ruled over by some invading army".

The Bible account says something to teh effect that all the tribes of Israle were in "fear and trembling" over th wisdom of Solomon. Why would they be in fear and trembling over a nice little story about a baby who got back to his true mother? The explanation that fits is that the tribes were afraid that what Solomon stated would come true, and so remained united under him.

51

i called bethel RE: voting...

by in a new york bethel minute in

.

still not a conscience matter... although for the countries that demand that everyone register and actually walk in the booth to cast a vote, a witness may, if his conscience allows, register and go into the booth and add a new box labelled "jesus christ", then checkmark that box and vote for him... hahaha cool eh?!!!.

bethel

sir82

Just a reminder, taping a phone conversation where one party is not aware that his/her conversation is being taped is illegal (in the US) and can land you in jail

I'm certainly no lawyer, but as I recall, taping a phone conversation where both parties are unaware it is being recorded is illegal; however, if just one of the parties knows it is being recorded, it is perfectly legal.

Or I could be hallucinating again.

28

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and then what?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

in just a few weeks, this year will end and a new one begins.

nothing special, just 2006.. but when you analyse the jw doctrine, it is another nail in their already 91 nail studded coffin.

the watchtower has for decades taught that jesus' presence and rulership began in 1914. since changing the generation of 1914 doctrine, a whole decade has passed, with little in the way of anything new.

sir82

As I have posted earlier, 2014 is a looming crisis. How can JWs, with a straight face, preach a message of "when Jesus talked about the last days, he really meant the last centuries".

Perhaps it is just my perception, in my little corner of the JW universe, but it seems to me that more and more persons are just kind of ignoring the WT hard-line. Constant drum-beatings of "do more, do more, do more" are not having any effect.

At a recent "pioneer day" in our congregation, elaborate plans were made for all sorts of witnessing work all day on Saturday, morning and afternoon. 56 people showed up for the morning, all 56 came back or the free lunch at the Kingdom hall, but all of 6 people bothered to go out in the afternoon. A generation ago, there would have been dozens sticking around for afternoon service.

I have to believe that at some point, a critical mass will be reached. D-Fings will continue to be announced, "do more" will continue to be beaten down, "we the governing body sure are glorious" articles will be written, but at some point, people will just start ignoring it all, talking to whoever they want, spending Saturday mornings at home, parroting WT answers but not applying the lessons, etc. When a big enough number finally does so, the WT will be forced to collapse or greatly mainstream itself.

51

i called bethel RE: voting...

by in a new york bethel minute in

.

still not a conscience matter... although for the countries that demand that everyone register and actually walk in the booth to cast a vote, a witness may, if his conscience allows, register and go into the booth and add a new box labelled "jesus christ", then checkmark that box and vote for him... hahaha cool eh?!!!.

bethel

sir82

Perhaps its just my mind playing tricks on me....

Does anyone else remember a discussion, many years ago, either in a WT or a CO visit or assembly, or anything, along the lines of..

"Of course, we are politically neutral, and do not vote persons into political office. But if a JW were to vote on a non-politcal issue (examples: should a school levy be passed? vote for bonds to pay for an new park?), that would be OK. The vote is to determine where money is allocated, and has nothing to do with neutrality (i.e., not voting and in effect saying "I place my trust in this elected official")"

It also could have been the personal opinion of a particular elder. This would have been (too many) years ago, when I was quite young.

33

making 1914 crumble

by googlemagoogle in

yet another 1914 thread?

there are plenty of threads already about chronology, babylonian kings, egyptian kings, median and persian kings, there is also lots of information available about old bible-students and jw literature.

even a simplified chronology including "fallen baby" and "evil duck" is available somewhere on this site.

sir82

this is something every JW can understand and will be disturbed about.

Hardly. 99% of the JWs I know would say "What a miraculous line of evidence that Jehovah is with this organization! What are the odds of discovering a 1-year error for the destruction of Jerusalem (606 vs. 607 BCE) while simultaneously discovering that there was no 0 year?"

19

Embarassing Situations on stage

by Candlestick02 in

forgive me if this has been brought up before, but another thread reminded me of a few on-stage snafoo's.

anybody got any good ones?

like that made you lol?.

sir82

Is microphone carrying close enough?

There once was a kid who was, shall we say, coordination-ally challenged. It was his turn to carry the microphone.

These were the microphones with cords (I think most Halls have cordless now). Anyway, someone raises their hand, the conductor calls on him. It's on this kid's side of the hall.

As he starts to move forward, he steps on the microphone cord, pulling the micrphone downward.

I guess he must have thought "Can't...let...go...of...microphone" and so clung to it in his one hand for dear life.

As his weight carried him forward, the cord pulled him over, so he basically fell flat on his face.

The hall was a mass of attempted suppression of chuckling & sniggering, not at all times successful. I distinctly remember one old-school elderly elder, with a thick German accent, whispering loudly to his about-to-lose-it completely wife, "Don't laugh! Don't laugh!" Which of course made it worse.

Fun times.

16

barf-inducing quote on jw-media.org...

by in a new york bethel minute in

conscience

jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.

emphasis is placed on personal application of bible principles and the value of a sound, bible-based conscience.matthew 15:9; 2 corinthians 1:24.

sir82

That quote is particularly hilarious when you consider one of this week's talks in the Service Meeting.

I'm at work & don't have my KM or the WT-CD with me, but the talk is based on an article from the 9/15/02 WT, dealing with how "true" Christians respond to national anthems & flag salute.

"If you are asked to stand and sing, you may stand respectfully....if asked to stand only, you must remain seated...if already standing, you need not make the special action of sitting down..."

On and on and on...paragraph after paragraph of Pharisaic interpretations of what a "true" Christian will & won't do regarding patriotic ceremonies.

If anyone has access to the WT-CD and can post that article, it would make a faxscinating contrast to put it, and the WT-Media.org quote side by side.

38

Bethelite Attorney-In-Training Receives Award

by West70 in

general studies student receives women's forum education award

school of general studies student kathleen apltauer has received the 2005 women's forum educational award.

the award is presented annually to new york city women in recognition of the extraordinary and heroic efforts they have made in order to overcome adversity in their lives.

sir82

A-ha, it all becomes clear now...

If you are the wife of a Bethel dentist/doctor/lawyer/engineer, you can rise above your toilet-scrubbing colleagues and work on that post-graduate degree.

Imagine the salivation that would occur if there was a single Bethelite doctor who was looking to get hitched! JW mothers would be knifing each other to get their daughters introduced first to said uber-eligible bachelor.

54

The end is nigh

by IP_SEC in

do you guys think we are sufficiantly along in the month of october to be able to say that the end isnt coming in the fall of '05?.

when i was a dub i really thought the end was coming this month.. 1975+30= 2005. if adam was 30 when eve was created this would be the end of the 5000 years of since jahs last rest.. eve created, jah rest for 1000 years (1k years is as one day to jovah) he picks up work again 1000 years after eve is created.

now in 2005 that means he has just 1 more "day" until the next great 1k years sabbath.

sir82

Interesting to see that the 1975 speculation still lives on in muted form among the R&F.

In this particular corner of the JW universe, there are several old-timers who have a variety of dates calculated, from 2005 - 2008, based on the original "1975 marks 6000 years since Adam was created" hypothesis:

-- Adam was 130 was Seth was born, per Genesis 5. Seth was born to "replace" Cain, who was no longer fit to be ancestor of the promised seed. Cain was 100 when he killed Abel (not sure where they get this from). So, Adam was 30 when Cain was born, making him about 30 when Eve was created. Thus Eve, the last direct creation of Jehovah, was created when Adam was about 30, so the end comes 6000 years afterward, 1975 + 30 = 2005 (October, of course).

Oops, just 5 days to go until that is de-bunked.

-- Abraham crossed the Euphrates in 1943 BCE (WT chronology). 1,975 years later, in 33 CE, Jesus died. 1,975 years later, in 2008, is a nice symmetric time for Armageddon (there was some more reasoning on this, but I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention). Plus, if Jesus, "the last Adam", lived for 33.5 years, wouldn't it make sense that Adam was 33.5 years old when he sinned??? So, 1975 + 33.5 = 2008/2009 as the latest date for Armageddon.

And there are others. One particular old-timer said he had been calculating dates for Armageddon's arrival since the 1950's. "What's your batting average?" I asked. The response was a sullen glare and a mumbled "not so good."

13

Penton & the drama this year

by carla in

jw
friends

in the book apocalypse delayed by james penton he describes a 'drama' on pg 101-. the greatest emphasis was again placed on the preaching work, and jesus was described as a pioneer.in an assembly drama or 'morality play' on the apostle paul's companion timothy, young persons fresh from high school were strongly discouraged from attending academies of higher learning, and an always laten watch tower animosity towrads university education bacame more evident.. this sounds just like the drama from this summer.

i was under the impression that some jw's thought this was a new drama.

do they just recycle this stuff all the time?

sir82

LDH,

Tsk! Don't you know that Luke came into the truth after he studied medicine?

If he had to do it all over again, he would have started his own cleaning business.