i picked up my 18 year old step son today, i mentioned last week that his dad threw him out because sean and his step mom didn't get along.
dad handed off luggage, etc, a hug and a reminder to "go to meetings as often as you can.".
as soon as his dad was out of ear shot sean said, "well, i'm 18 now, i have options, what would i have to do if i wanted to become catholic?".
If he's with you at Christmas try inviting him to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. It's always one of our family highlights. We go and when we get home the kids get to open one of their presents before going to bed. Of course, we sleep in a tad longer Christmas morning and then do the rest of the presents!
CatholicGuy
not my webpage but a favorite:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM
i have to respond to the letter sent to the branches from the wtb&ts.. first: the explanation from mike pence is right on the money.
i am still an active jw who was at bethel for several yrs.
and in good standing with my local congregation.
I just looked at the calendar. The Society's letter sent out by the Chairman's Committee is dated November 1st...which is a Thursday! Does anyone know if the Governing Body still meets every Wednesday or not? Could be coincidence but I wonder....
CatholicGuy
i have to respond to the letter sent to the branches from the wtb&ts.. first: the explanation from mike pence is right on the money.
i am still an active jw who was at bethel for several yrs.
and in good standing with my local congregation.
Lookin,
The letter was sent by the Chairman's Committee. I've been out of the Organization for awhile but isn't that the Chairman's Committee of the Governing Body? If so, that would mean it is fully representative of the Governing Body's position on the matter, wouldn't it? No doubt this issue was discussed in one of the weekly sessions of the GB (when I was in Bethel in the mid-70's they used to meet every Wednesday: we used to joke the most important announcements would be made on Thursdays!)
CatholicGuy
as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
I'm reposting this here at the request of MacHislopp:
I've been able to maintain contact with a JW friend--even though I've been out of the Organization for over 20 years. I brought up the UN subject with him and got this interesting reply. My friend is an elder now and former Bethelite:
++++++++++
Does it bother me that there could be some sort of affiliation with the UN? Not in the least. We have to have some sort of relationship with the governments that we live under even though we know that Jehovah will destroy them. I have friends who are not JW's and know that God will deal with all in perfect mercy and justice. We have to live peacefully within our communities that include other religions; we have to show tolerance to be tolerated by others. And what about Jehovah's judgements in the future? My view: that's His job, not mine. The problems with religions come when we try to rush those judgements somewhat (ex: our Islamic pals of late). I was sorry to here the brothers at Brooklyn reacted to questioning by withdrawing. The better responce would have been: MYOB. Oh well.
++++++++
A better response than the "library card" defense. I don't agree with it but it's a more honorable defense.
Just got one more response from the same elder:
++++++++
The WTBS relationship with the UN is no more "hypocritical" than the apostle Paul's citizenship with the Roman empire. When he was beaten he "appealed to Caesar". The same fellow that was killing his brothers. Was he being a hypocrite? Apparently not. He was, however, using the system to further the preaching of the good news. Is there anything wrong with the UN charter? No, it seems to further lofty ideals. Is there anything wrong with the Constitution of the U.S.? No, it's the basis for the freedoms we enjoy. Is it hypocritical to be a citizen of a country, enjoy it's benefits and still remain neutral as to political and military affairs? You be the judge, but the Bible says no. Is it hypocritical to be listed as an NGO with an organization that the Bible condemns to further the preaching of the good news around the world? If it were then JW's would have to operate "underground" in every country of the world, because all man-made governments will be destroyed by God eventually. We couldn't "register" or incorporate in any of them. There's no hypocrisy with the WTBS on this issue.
Here's the hypocrisy: this writer and those who are stirring this up are focusing on such a minor point that they ignore all the good being done by JW's and the good people who are with us. We're listed as an NGO with the UN. SO WHAT? Like I said in my last note: his intentions are suspect. Actually they're more than suspect: they're malicious, and therefore his information becomes questionable and not worthy of consideration. The old adage is true: don't believe everything you read.
+++++++++++
He's referring to the article by Stephen Bates. My friend also hinted that our relationship was at risk by my bringing up the subject. Guess I touched a nerve?
Any comments?
CatholicGuy
not my webpage but a favorite:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM
i've been able to maintain contact with a jw friend--even though i've been out of the organization for over 20 years.
i brought up the un subject with him and got this interesting reply.
my friend is an elder now and former bethelite:.
Just got one more response from the same elder:
++++++++
The WTBS relationship with the UN is no more "hypocritical" than the apostle Paul's citizenship with the Roman empire. When he was beaten he "appealed to Caesar". The same fellow that was killing his brothers. Was he being a hypocrite? Apparently not. He was, however, using the system to further the preaching of the good news. Is there anything wrong with the UN charter? No, it seems to further lofty ideals. Is there anything wrong with the Constitution of the U.S.? No, it's the basis for the freedoms we enjoy. Is it hypocritical to be a citizen of a country, enjoy it's benefits and still remain neutral as to political and military affairs? You be the judge, but the Bible says no. Is it hypocritical to be listed as an NGO with an organization that the Bible condemns to further the preaching of the good news around the world? If it were then JW's would have to operate "underground" in every country of the world, because all man-made governments will be destroyed by God eventually. We couldn't "register" or incorporate in any of them. There's no hypocrisy with the WTBS on this issue.
Here's the hypocrisy: this writer and those who are stirring this up are focusing on such a minor point that they ignore all the good being done by JW's and the good people who are with us. We're listed as an NGO with the UN. SO WHAT? Like I said in my last note: his intentions are suspect. Actually they're more than suspect: they're malicious, and therefore his information becomes questionable and not worthy of consideration. The old adage is true: don't believe everything you read.
+++++++++++
He's referring to the article by Stephen Bates. My friend also hinted that our relationship was at risk by my bringing up the subject. Guess I touched a nerve?
i've been able to maintain contact with a jw friend--even though i've been out of the organization for over 20 years.
i brought up the un subject with him and got this interesting reply.
my friend is an elder now and former bethelite:.
I've been able to maintain contact with a JW friend--even though I've been out of the Organization for over 20 years. I brought up the UN subject with him and got this interesting reply. My friend is an elder now and former Bethelite:
++++++++++
Does it bother me that there could be some sort of affiliation with the UN? Not in the least. We have to have some sort of relationship with the governments that we live under even though we know that Jehovah will destroy them. I have friends who are not JW's and know that God will deal with all in perfect mercy and justice. We have to live peacefully within our communities that include other religions; we have to show tolerance to be tolerated by others. And what about Jehovah's judgements in the future? My view: that's His job, not mine. The problems with religions come when we try to rush those judgements somewhat (ex: our Islamic pals of late). I was sorry to here the brothers at Brooklyn reacted to questioning by withdrawing. The better responce would have been: MYOB. Oh well.
++++++++
A better response than the "library card" defense. I don't agree with it but it's a more honorable defense.
Any comments?
CatholicGuy
maybe this is public knowledge already...i don't know.
back about 10 years ago my best friend worked for a christian book store.
he used to order foreign bibles for the store and one evening i was thumbing through a thai bible on the shelf and was dumbstruck.
The Watch Tower Society didn't just "provide" Bibles to the Thailand Bible Society. It customed printed copies for them with the Thailand Bible Society imprint on them. So, the title page says "Thailand Bible Society" and has no mention of the WTS.
Maybe if things get slow in Brooklyn they could do some printing for the American Bible Society?
Hoping to get my original letters posted here soon.
CatholicGuy
*** rbi8 ephesians 4:1-3 ***.
4 i, therefore, the prisoner in [the] lord, entreat you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called, 2 with complete lowliness of mind and mildness, with long-suffering, putting up with one another in love, 3 earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace.
jehovahs witnesses are a united people.
Catholics are more works oriented and Protestants recognize works as evidence of faith but not grace.
Eph. 2.8,9
Actually, this is a common misconception of Catholic belief. Protestants often refer to the Catholic concept of "merit." In reality, Catholics and Protestants approach the faith/works controversy from different angles but in the final analysis are saying the same thing. See this link from the Catechism (sections 2006-2011):
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#III
In Catholic theology all "merit" (any reward owed us for our actions)is all a gift of God. St Augustine said: "Our merits are God's gifts." St Therese of Lisieux said:
"After earth's exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone....In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice [righteousness] is blemished in your eyes. I wish then, to be clothed in your own justice [righteousness] and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself."
there are a lot of great sites on this message board but so i don't miss any, would you post them here.
i would like to construct a few emails to show people just what its like in the org.
even some sites that show a perspective from someone other than a witness.
Since so many people studying with Jehovah's Witnesses have had a Catholic background, I'd suggest this link:
http://www.webshowplace.com/question/home.htm
It has a great list of questions for JWs and also some info on Child Custody issues.
CatholicGuy
the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.
when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.
in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.
For Chappy,
The Catholic Church does not view the "elect" as meaning only a few will rule the earth. The mystery of the Kingdom of God starts out as a small mustard seed but grows into a full grown tree. As far as the Catholic view on these things see the _Catechism_:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc2.htm
Particularly the section "The Hope of the New Heaven and the New Earth" (sections 1042-1050):
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#VI
Some of the figurative language of Revelation is explained in sections 1137 and 1138 of the _Catechism_. In essence, the 144,000 is seen as a figurative number that shows the People of God here on earth now and the "great multitude" is the heavenly scene of the same people seen after their glorification:
1137 The book of Revelation of St. John, read in the Church's liturgy, first reveals to us, "A throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne": "the Lord God." It then shows the Lamb, "standing, as though it had been slain": Christ crucified and risen, the one high priest of the true sanctuary, the same one "who offers and is offered, who gives and is given." Finally it presents "the river of the water of life . . . flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb," one of most beautiful symbols of the Holy Spirit. 1138 "Recapitulated in Christ," these are the ones who take part in the service of the praise of God and the fulfillment of his plan: the heavenly powers, all creation (the four living beings), the servants of the Old and New Covenants (the twenty-four elders), the new People of God (the one hundred and forty-four thousand), especially the martyrs "slain for the word of God," and the all-holy Mother of God (the Woman), the Bride of the Lamb, and finally "a great multitude which no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes, and peoples and tongues."
CatholicGuy
