Posts by Jeffro

I believe that the existence of WT is best explained as a carefully planned deception designed to teach adherents to reject the sin-atoning value of his blood and Mediatorship.

🤦‍♂️ At best, you're giving them too much credit. Though this getting into tinfoil hat territory.

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

Jeffro

Sea Breeze:

You may be technically right, but I think with their latest comments they are leaving open the possibility of millions and billions of years of creation time periods (days) for plants and animals.

It is certainly possible, and it is in their interests to be generally vague in view of undeniable science on the matter, as well as a desire to distance themselves from other 'creationists'.

However, their end-times beliefs also require that 'God's day of rest' - the 7th 'day' of the 'creative week' - is a relatively short period of time, which implicitly restricts the length of the other 'creative days'.

They have also made statements since 2010 that continue to refer to the 'creative days' as only thousands of years.

Awake!, January 2014, page 12:

Evidently, these “days” of creation lasted many thousands of years.

Awake!, March 2014, page 5:

• In the Bible account, each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.

Insight (2018 revision), volume 1, page 919:

After Genesis 1:1, 2 (relating to the creation of the heavens and the earth), the book evidently covers a span of thousands of years involved in the preparation of the earth for human habitation

The only exception is that the entries for Creation and Day in the latest printing of Insight say the duration of the 'creative days' was "at least thousands of years" (formatting added).

The only certainty at this point is they will continue to be vague about it.

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

Jeffro

Sea Breeze:

Don't you see that, like I said, the Wt. already bought into the "billions of years" paradigm. The earth was clearly created BEFORE the other heavenly bodies according to Genesis.

Sigh. It's not clear why you're disagreeing with what I said. Yes, they've always (or for at least the last 80 years or so) said that the universe and the earth may be billions of years old. And they have only ever said that the 'creative days' are thousands of years but never millions or billions of years. The latter point makes their belief a form of day-age creationism.

They believe that the 'third' and 'fourth' days refer to separate activities after the initial billions of years. For example, they claim in Insight (volume 1, page 528):

It is also noteworthy that at Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew verb ba·raʼʹ, meaning “create,” is not used. Instead, the Hebrew verb ʽa·sahʹ, meaning “make,” is employed. Since the sun, moon, and stars are included in “the heavens” mentioned in Genesis 1:1, they were created long before Day Four. On the fourth day God proceeded to “make” these celestial bodies occupy a new relationship toward earth’s surface and the expanse above it. When it is said, “God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth,” this would indicate that they now became discernible from the surface of the earth, as though they were in the expanse. Also, the luminaries were to “serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years,” thus later providing guidance for man in various ways.—Ge 1:14.

So... what they say about Genesis 1:16 is nonsense, but it confirms what I have already told you about their belief.

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

Jeffro

Sea Breeze:

Jeffro, The quotes provided by others above appear to prove otherwise:

Incorrect. If you pay attention to what I said: “they say that the creation of the universe ‘in the beginning’ up until the initial formation of earth before the ‘creative days’ was "evidently" billions of years, with unconvincing apologetics regarding the contradiction this creates with Genesis 1:16.”

Formation of the universe as well as the referenced geological formations come before what they call the ‘creative days’. They only refer to the ‘creative days’ in terms of thousands of years.

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

Jeffro

They have never expressly changed the view that the ‘creative days’ are 7000 years each. They just don’t mention a specific period anymore. When they do refer to the total length of the ‘creative days’, they say they could have been “many thousands” of years, but never millions or billions. (However, they say that the creation of the universe ‘in the beginning’ up until the initial formation of earth before the ‘creative days’ was "evidently" billions of years, with unconvincing apologetics regarding the contradiction this creates with Genesis 1:16.) Their view remains a form of day-age creationism.

It seems that 1987 was the last time they explicitly said the 'creative days' were each 7000 years. The Watchtower, 1 January 1987, p. 30:

Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long.

56

Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

are you offended if you see a flag?

what about a confederate flag?.

Jeffro

minimus:

They probably do? You’re a phony

That's the best you've got? My casual use of the word 'probably' is 'problematic' for you? But you're the one who keeps posting things - from Murdoch sources - that you're 'offended' about (which often includes misinformation). I'm just responding to the nonsense you've provided. Unlike you, I don't seek out this nonsense.

snare&racket:

If you feel offended by the feelings or speech or actions of someone with differing view to your own.... that is for you to deal with, not the other party.

Exactly. The people who complain that they're 'offended' are just as tedious as the tendentious responses to such nonsense. But that doesn't mean some commercial entity is intrinsically 'wrong' for rebranding something that is supposedly offensive if they figure they'll make more money by changing (though this often backfires). Some people seem to think that for-profit companies are providing a public service. 🤦‍♂️

It is particularly odd that some people suddenly become so attached to some cartoon character or product mascot when it is 'attacked' for being 'offensive' when they otherwise would have been completely ambivalent about it.

56

Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

are you offended if you see a flag?

what about a confederate flag?.

Jeffro

minimus:

CNN has derisive rhetoric. MSNBC. The New York Times. The Daily News. The Washington Post.

They probably do. And if I see a thread on here using their divisive nonsense I’ll say so. But the majority of recent divisive threads of this nature on this forum seem to be yours, and they are primarily (if not totally) drawn from the Murdoch press.

56

Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

are you offended if you see a flag?

what about a confederate flag?.

Jeffro

minimus:

Jeffro has issues with the Murdoch press. Talks about any newspapers he doesn’t like.

Just an observation of where a lot of the divisive rhetoric comes from. If I’d seen it coming from somewhere else, I would say so. Doesn’t seem as though you’re making any legitimate point.

56

Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

are you offended if you see a flag?

what about a confederate flag?.

Jeffro

minimus:

Companies will always look for the bottom line how much money are they going to make or not make.

Obviously. And?