Posts by Jeffro

posted

38
New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.
Jeffro

Scholarly consensus around the life of Jesus is fairly thin, and the only strong scholarly agreement is that he was baptised by John, was an itinerant preacher of some description, and was executed by the Romans. There is no broad scholarly agreement for the 'resurrection' or any other of the anecdotes about Jesus in the 'gospels'.
Proponents of stories about Jesus (and other biblical tales) like to cite things like 'the criterion of embarrassment' - the idea that stories that include negative details are more likely to be true because invented stories would (supposedly) paint characters in the best possible light. However, this fails because it is readily apparent that a writer could include such details in their stories for exactly that reason.
38
New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.
Jeffro

There's little reason to believe that Jesus said anything attributed to him in the 'gospels', which appeared a generation after his death. In Paul's writings, he seems to know almost nothing about Jesus apart from the 'ransom', almost as though most details about Jesus' life were made up later.
38
New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.
Jeffro

Maybe start with the 'holy spirit'...
JW: The holy spirit is God's active force, his power in action.
Non-JW: Would Jews and early Christians know about God's power?
JW: Of course!
Non-JW: [Acts 19:2]
JW: Oh... um....
Non-JW: Paul also said that the holy spirit isn't the same thing as God's power: [2 Corinthians 6:6, 7]
JW: Um... I have to go.
38
New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's
by Sea Breeze in
1. watchtower
2. bible
5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.
Jeffro

Or a delusion of grandeur. But I’m guessing that isn’t a viable alternative for JWs either.
24
Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd in
1. watchtower
2. child-abuse
firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
Jeffro

the old elder's manual (I think these were published in the 70s and 80s) only had a publisher and no copyright notice (this was when copyright still had to be established by sending a copy into the LOC)
The original 1977 version gives publisher information but not a copyright notice (for the reason given), however they acknowledged that they published it. The 1991 version also includes the copyright mark.
24
Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd in
1. watchtower
2. child-abuse
firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
Jeffro

Anony Mous:
Using copyrightable material in a lawsuit is fair use. Requesting those legal documents for any reason, even if you want to sell the result, is also fair use and is required to be allowed by law.
You are referring to a court using materials or a third party making derivative works from such sources. The court may have an exemption to copyright to provide the entire work (or it may be reduced or redacted). However, the sources themselves do not fall into the public domain and a third party can’t just re-publish the entire source (not a derivative work) and sell it.
24
Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd in
1. watchtower
2. child-abuse
firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
Jeffro

The earlier Pay Attention elders’ manual also has a publisher notice.
24
Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.
by joe134cd in
1. watchtower
2. child-abuse
firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.
Jeffro

Anony Mous;
Letters and statements of facts (eg. finance records) don't have copyright associated with them in the way that a book or literary work does. Likewise if certain documents are filed in a lawsuit, these become public domain.
It is true that basic information, for example a list of numbers, can’t be copyrighted, but the way facts are presented can still be subject to copyright. It is not the case that descriptions of facts can’t be copyrighted. Documents that become public record do not automatically fall into public domain, i.e., you can’t start selling copies of someone else’s copyrighted work just because the document was used in a court case.
If WTBTS claims copyright, then it admits that it has authored those documents, which is why they don't claim copyright on for example, the elder manual but they do on for example any other publication they have ever made.
This claim about the Watch Tower Society not claiming copyright over the ‘elder’s manual’ is entirely false. Where the entire book has been copied, they have had it removed from sites. However they would have no case where a snippet of the book is used along with commentary, which is fair use. Publication information is explicitly stated in the book.
22
Taking The Knee 14 months after George Floyd's death
by LoveUniHateExams in
1. social
2. current
taking the knee became popular among sportspeople immediately after the death of george floyd in may 2020.. most football (that's soccer to you yanks) players are still taking the knee before matches more than a year later.. what has it achieved?

.

what do expect it to achieve in the future?.
Jeffro

IWant2Leave:
Colin Karpernick knelt in 2016 protesting police brutality, oppression, and racial injustice before the world ever heard of George Floyd.
I thought it wasn’t something that only started after Floyd’s death. The specific gesture aside, there remain significant problems with the BLM ‘movement’ though.
22
Taking The Knee 14 months after George Floyd's death
by LoveUniHateExams in
1. social
2. current
taking the knee became popular among sportspeople immediately after the death of george floyd in may 2020.. most football (that's soccer to you yanks) players are still taking the knee before matches more than a year later.. what has it achieved?

.

what do expect it to achieve in the future?.
Jeffro

Surely the Black Lives Matter movement could come up with a more meaningful mascot than someone who was defrauding a business owner while amped up on drugs (and killed not merely ‘by police’, but by someone already known to him through working together as private security). That is if their intentions are actually to help prevent racism. But there is a chasm between the concept that ‘black lives matter’ and the BLM movement.