Posts by Jeffro

40

Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

by Sea Breeze in

watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

Jeffro

Sea Breeze:

My appeal was accepted, I got born again, filled with the Holy Sprit.... the whole nine yards.

It is entirely impossible to confirm that any part of that is true.

40

Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

by Sea Breeze in

watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

Jeffro

Sea Breeze:

Watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

It does. But Christianity has been playing this game for centuries, and the Watch Tower Society is just another denomination with its own esoteric interpretations.

First of all, Jesus said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel

Actually, we have no evidence that Jesus said that at all. We have no evidence that Jesus actually said anything attributed to him in the Bible. What we have is documents written by people who had access to older works, enabling them to write stories that ‘fulfilled’ supposed ‘prophecies’, usually out of context and sometimes in reference to passages that were never intended as ‘prophecy’ at all.

It’s remarkably unimpressive that someone could read what Jeremiah and Ezekiel wrote, and then write something based on that.

33

Stupid dumb ass changes yet blood and 1914 no change???wtfge???

by Witness 007 in

yeah wow women can finally wear pants and men beards...but 1914 is still a date not accepted since charles russell times and blood fractions are evil!!.

are they crazy!!!

!.

Jeffro

Rattigan350:

The only thing that matters is when the banding of the tree ended and the kingdom was established. Russell had nothing to do with that.

The convoluted JW (Adventist) interpretation of the ‘banding of the tree’ is contrived nonsense. It is erroneous from start to finish. There was no conveniently invisible ‘kingdom established in 1914’

33

Stupid dumb ass changes yet blood and 1914 no change???wtfge???

by Witness 007 in

yeah wow women can finally wear pants and men beards...but 1914 is still a date not accepted since charles russell times and blood fractions are evil!!.

are they crazy!!!

!.

Jeffro

Praotes1914:

I don’t have a problem with 1914. It is a fact that World War I started then. Just think where Russell would’ve been if nothing happened in 1914? He would’ve been totally washed up. All they’re going to do is drop the numerology and keep the date 1914 and I don’t have a problem with that because World War I started and it was the start of the last days. what’s wrong with keeping that theology?

Texas sharp shooter fallacy. If WWI began in a different year, one of the other nutter groups promoting a different nutter chronology would latch on to it as ‘proof’ of their slightly different nutter views. There’s barely a year in the late 19th or early 20th centuries that some nutter group didn’t say was ‘the year’. What Russell said would happen didn’t happen anyway, and Russell didn’t believe Satan was cast to earth in 1914. The fact is that apart from the Adventist core, they have completely changed the theology from what Russell believed about 1914.

Just a few of the things Russell believed that were later changed, mostly by Rutherford:

The Great Pyramid of Giza confirms biblical chronology
Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 BCE
The ‘time of the end’ began in 1799
Christ’s presence began in 1874
Jesus was made king in 1878
‘Sleeping saints’ were resurrected to heaven in 1878

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

Jeffro

Rattigan350:

Jesus didn't choose a Governing body or a board of directors. He observed people back in the early 1800s that were searching for truth in the scriptures. They searched chronology. Brown, Clinton, Bowen, Elliott, Barbour and Russell, Jesus saw them going in the right direction and observed and aided them.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

the start of the gentile times is not based on the destruction of Jerusalem, as that was in 587. It was 20 years prior, in around 607. We don't know the exact event or dated that triggered the banding of the tree,

starting your own nutty sect? you need to work on the head canon a bit more though methinks.

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

Jeffro

Praotes1914:

but think about it. World War I it started then.

Texas sharp shooter fallacy. After the ‘great disappointment’ in 1844, various nutter groups posed almost every year in the late 19th and early 20th centuries as ‘the year’ (and the Bible Students weren’t even the first to suggest 1914). It is entirely unremarkable that something significant happened in one of those years. WWI didn’t just happen as some random unanticipated event in an otherwise utopian world. It isn’t a coincidence that the Watch Tower Society has not mentioned the Balkan Wars in 100 years.

But it is possible that the Watch Tower Society could try to rely more on those lies independent of the numerology anyway.

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

Jeffro

Mikejw:

Many things yes but not this, there is no way they can ever get out of the 1914 seventy weeks from 607thing.

It is true that they can’t easily abandon 1914, but not for this reason. The ‘70 weeks’ (from Daniel chapter 9) has no direct bearing on the determination of 1914. The jw interpretation of the 70 weeks (as with various other Christian denominations, particularly other Adventists) is that it began during the reign of Artaxerxes and supposedly identified Jesus as the messiah. The JW interpretation is particularly wrong because their year for the supposed beginning of the period is 10 years out.

14

Is the 1000 year reign literal?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this students on this forum, i would love to know what your view is?.

Jeffro

(Some of the more astute readers might note that the thousand years begins when others also rule with Jesus rather than just Jesus himself becoming king. They might then argue for a protracted period between Jesus’ presence and the start of the thousand years. However, whilst the source material allows for some amount of time between those events, everything in the New Testament indicates that the imaginary destruction of Rome (‘Babylon the Great’) and establishment of God’s kingdom after the great tribulation were expected to occur in relatively quick succession. Additionally, because Matthew and Mark explicitly place Jesus’ presence after the great tribulation, the JW belief is in any case irreconcilable.)

Is the 1000 year reign literal?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this students on this forum, i would love to know what your view is?.

Jeffro

aqwsed12345:

The only correct and now almost universally accepted interpretation among Catholic exegetes sees the entire earthly life of the Church in the thousand-year reign of Christ and His saints, which essentially means the same as the forty-two months, one thousand two hundred and sixty days, and three and a half years mentioned in other visions (11:2; 12:6, 14).

Well that’s obviously wrong. At least it meant I didn’t need to read the rest of the rambling post. The 42 months, 1260 days and 3.5 years all allude to the period from 66-70CE constituting the Roman response to the Jewish revolt, and do not correspond to the imaginary future 1000 years.

The 1000 years could have been intended as literal but was more likely hyperbole. As a fictional trope, there’s not too much value in trying to assess whether it’s ‘actually’ a literal period.

The JW view is particularly broken, since the period is supposed to begin when Satan is bound but also when Jesus becomes king. So in their messed up chronology it would ostensibly have started over a hundred years ago, but also not started yet. This glaring error is largely because they have Jesus’ presence and the great tribulation explicitly in the wrong order.

For other JW errors about the 1000 years, see What does the Bible really teach about the 1000 years?

15

Crisis of Conscience

by Freeatlast2024 in

this is my first time posting to this forum.

let me start by saying i was born and raised as a jehovah’s witness.

i’m thankful that i was raised this way, because i feel it protected me in some ways, especially with regard to moral issues.

Jeffro

Freeatlast2024:

What really threw me over the edge was when the disfellowshipping changes came just two weeks after losing the Norway trial.

The changes were most likely planned months earlier (as is generally the case with content on ‘JW Broadcasting’) and possibly also filmed in advance (particularly given that they need time to translate into various languages), though it is possible it was planned to enact those changes only if they lost the Norway case.

However, the changes to the shunning policies do not fully address the issues raised by the Norwegian government. ‘Unrepentant’ individuals including minors are still shunned, and social contact is still not permitted with disfellowshipped individuals beyond awkward meeting invites and greetings at meetings. And that’s only if the person shows interest in returning, to the exclusion of ‘apostates’.