Posts by Jeffro

2

Why Witnesses get people to question there religion but they get disfellowshiped if they do it.

by Witness 007 in

yeah so we knock on doors and whatever religion we find we ask them to dismiss it and join us.

all other religions are a shame not real.

but if you questioned the j.w religion about 1914 or anything you would be disfellowshiped..

Jeffro

Because shunning is only mean when non-JWs do it...

Here's Dino Ali (yes, the same Dino Ali who was questioned in the Australian Royal Commission on 10 July 2015), in The Watchtower, 1 February, 2012:

Also, for many years after [becoming a JW], some of our relatives refused to visit us. We tried to treat them according to Bible principles by showing them love. Eventually, the barriers came down, and now our close relatives no longer shun us.

It's not clear whether he was still shunning his disfellowshipped daughter by that time.

28

Sisters can now wear pants. Any more important changes

by Witness 007 in

alot of my witness friends were excited sisters can now wear pants and you can say hi to disfellowshiped folks but what about important stuff child molesters in the congregation you need 2 witnesses blood fractions are fine but not whole blood????

607 bce is from the 1880s wrong....anything else?

Jeffro

TonusOH:

Did they really say this? That they are dropping the 607 BCE date?

The original statement was awkwardly worded but in any case, no, 607 BCE has not been dropped. And strictly speaking it’s only from the 1940s; they said it was 606 BCE until 1944.

27

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Jeffro

Thanks. I figured you had possibly copied it from someone else who copied it, which can make attribution harder. Not the end of the world. I’d be more annoyed if it was a significant chunk of content rather than just the small list. It’s not the first time my content has been ‘borrowed’.

28

Sisters can now wear pants. Any more important changes

by Witness 007 in

alot of my witness friends were excited sisters can now wear pants and you can say hi to disfellowshiped folks but what about important stuff child molesters in the congregation you need 2 witnesses blood fractions are fine but not whole blood????

607 bce is from the 1880s wrong....anything else?

Jeffro

jhine:

They seem to get followers so far under the thumb that the rank and file are conditioned to " do and not question " in every aspect of , well , everything.

Indeed. It's pretty sad when people are actually excited that they're suddenly 'allowed' to do such mundane things as wear pants or grow a beard.

But it's totally not a high-control group. 🤣

27

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Jeffro

Thanks Phizzy :)

It would be nice if people attributed work they've used, though it's not like they took the whole article so I can live with it. But yeah, it's a bit rude.

'House of Cards' is a great way to put it. (They're not always wrong, but they are never uniquely right; anything they happen to have gotten right is available in better sources anyway.)

I'm 'only human' too, and I've also benefited from the excellent work of contributors like AnnOMaly and Leolaia. Particularly AnnOMaly for giving me the impetus to do a proper decision-table analysis of the dating systems used in the biblical sources.

I really don't know why some people balk at being 'corrected' as if being told they're wrong is the worst thing in the world. If I've gotten something wrong, I'd want someone to let me know. (But I'll double-check, not just roll over.)

Thanks again.

27

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Jeffro

Vanderhoven7:

Here is some of the fine spiritual food the Watchtower was dispensing in 1919

Interesting… The list that followed was almost entirely copied without attribution from my page at https://jeffro77.wordpress.com/index/jehovahs-witnesses-and-1914-2, re-ordered but verbatim down to the specific punctuation.

Also plagiarised in the original order (by year abandoned) on a Quora post.

35

Blood decisions are now your problem: WT JULY 2025

by raymond frantz in

the following is from the latest study watchtower july 2025, study article 28, paragraph 17:.

each christian must make up his or her own mind about whether to accept or to reject these fractions.

we may find it a challenge to understand this matter fully, but making decisions like this is part of the load that each of us must carry.

Jeffro

raymond frantz:

Duran , if you noticed ,they never talk about blood transfusions anymore.

Nope. Meeting Workbook for January 2025 addresses blood transfusions, with a link to a video about transfusions. They wouldn’t be still pushing members to contact a HLC if everything were a ‘conscience matter’.

Lesson 39 of their current ‘Bible Study’ textbook specifically address blood transfusions, and is required subject matter for all new or prospective members.

The reduced language around transfusions is about PR, not a shift in practice.

35

Blood decisions are now your problem: WT JULY 2025

by raymond frantz in

the following is from the latest study watchtower july 2025, study article 28, paragraph 17:.

each christian must make up his or her own mind about whether to accept or to reject these fractions.

we may find it a challenge to understand this matter fully, but making decisions like this is part of the load that each of us must carry.

Jeffro

The use of blood fractions being a ‘conscience matter’ has been JW policy for at least 35 years. See The Watchtower, 1 June 1990.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

You’re not good at this. Maybe just stop.

At least he honestly quoted that I specifically referred to superstitions about magic. But it seems he still can’t separate fantasy from reality.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

His selective (and poorly cited) disjointed quotation of some poetry from Isaiah 47 (part of 'Isaiah' starting at chapter 40 that was actually composed towards the end of the exilic period) is meant to bolster his tenuous connection between 'magic' in ancient Babylon with his tedious claims about 'pharmakeia'. But superstitions about 'magic' were commonplace and not in any way unique to Babylon, nor did they originate there. (He already shot himself in the foot before by alluding to the Canaanite superstitions about magic practiced by Manasseh.) Revelation mentions pharmakeia in passing rather than as a way to identify 'Babylon the Great'. It's primary meaning is the administration of drugs or poisons, and its use as a metaphor in the NT period is well attested.

This is getting boring. Magic isn't real. Separate to illusion (sleight of hand etc), belief in 'magic' is rooted in superstition, historically (and in the case of some like Halcon, still) used as a way to control the ignorant through fear.