Posts by free2beme

25

I want to see your children, but shun you!

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i have relatives in the jehovah's witness religion still, and in-laws.

because my spouse and me were never officially disfellowshipped, they have a hard time with how to shun us.

basically, they don't.

Ever have a Vision Quest?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

the native american indians, always felt that the spirits spoke to them in visions.

often these were referred to as vision quest.

vision that through a source of odd and some what unrelated visions that explained something to you that might happen or might be happening and needs attention.

The native American Indians, always felt that the spirits spoke to them in visions. Often these were referred to as Vision Quest. Vision that through a source of odd and some what unrelated visions that explained something to you that might happen or might be happening and needs attention. This is not in the same line of ESP, but more of a belief that your spirit guides and spiritual energy speaks to you. I know this is a really out in left field for some who might think this is non-sense, but I think it is interesting to think about and discuss. Some refer to dreams that had a lot of images, some think about day dreams with visions, and others even say that at moments in their life when they least expected it, visions occurred that made no sense at the time and then fell into place as events unfolded.

I will share ones I had before leaving the Witnesses, if this thread takes off ...

10

Your family still thinks you believe, only you wont admit it to them.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

my spouses grandfather is in the hospital and only has a couple days left to live.

last night we were there and my in-laws decided this would be a good time to preach to the their fleshly relatives, as they are the only ones in the family that are witnesses.

my father-in-law has not been active in the witnesses, just attends meetings, so his ability to explain their faith is a little on the weak side.

free2beme

My spouses grandfather is in the hospital and only has a couple days left to live. Last night we were there and my in-laws decided this would be a good time to preach to the their fleshly relatives, as they are the only ones in the family that are Witnesses. My father-in-law has not been active in the Witnesses, just attends meetings, so his ability to explain their faith is a little on the weak side. Anyway, I was sitting to the side, trying to stay out of the conversation and then I hear this at the end, "... my children and their mates still believe this too, even if they left the religion." Then people turned to me, and I set there about to laugh, but decided to take it further and responded, "... no we don't. Actually your beliefs could not be further from ours, then they are." I then did something I do not normally do, as I am a practicing Wiccan and make an effort not to preach my faith to anyone, but at this time I had to explain as I was put center stage. So I spoke up, "... actually I think the dead we leave the physical body and rejoin spiritual energy and some do have a hard time crossing. Maybe they died in a violent way, had serious regrets left behind, or they belonged to a religion that told them the what happened at their death would not happen and they sit for a time in denial or trying to get messages to those left behind to not make their same mistake. Yet, it is frustrating as those left behind are trained to ignore them and their signs, and if they did notice something they would think "demons." I believe that in time some of the energies that were relatives connect with those in the physical life again, to offer comfort or to see a momentous event in their life or maybe even greet them at their own death. For the most part, I think they stay away from the physical and move on for the most part. In time, I think those energies move to other levels of existence and some return to live another life, if they choose too." My spouses Christian relatives, actually enjoyed the thought and commented that it sounds a little like their belief in heaven and enjoyed the idea that we felt a ending of life in this life, was not the end to our existence.

My father-in-law set their with his jaw just opened, and in shock. I swear he thought I was a demon at that point and just could not believe I was not still a Witness in the heart and not the person he wanted to think I was. He went to my spouse later, his child and asked how they felt now. When the response was the same, he looked like his world was falling apart. I felt bad for him, actually, but we have never hidden our beliefs since leaving the religion and have symbols and posters all over our house. We opening mention what we are and even comment from time to time on how people who practice magick believe. Not in a "... in your face" manner, but more of commenting on a wrong portrayal in a movie or a comment made about demons, or someone saying Witches worship Satan, etc. Yet, I guess even though a decade has passed from our exit, he slept better at night telling himself that we were still the people he wanted us to be, and not the former and non-Witnesses we really are. It's funny, but I actually think that people who see us as no longer Witnesses on the outside, think we are still one on the inside. Maybe this makes them feel, "...when the end comes, their heart will still be good." I don't think it comes out in the open, until major life events happen and then it is a learning lesson they needed to accept, which actually works with my death belief, " ... I believe that in time some of the energies that were relatives connect with those in the physical life again, to offer comfort or to see a momentous event in their life ... " and perhaps a relative felt it was time they accepted something, like it or not, and while they were there to greet someone or give comfort, might as well kill two birds with one stone. I was glad to assist, but left a short time later as I did not really want to teach all the people around us our faith and feel like a Witness anymore, when I already showed I did not believe like them in the same evening.

I would bet though, if your relatives were put to a lie detector and asked about your beliefs, a lot think you still believe the faith ... no matter where your life went from your exit.

25

I want to see your children, but shun you!

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i have relatives in the jehovah's witness religion still, and in-laws.

because my spouse and me were never officially disfellowshipped, they have a hard time with how to shun us.

basically, they don't.

free2beme

I have relatives in the Jehovah's Witness religion still, and in-laws. Because my spouse and me were never officially disfellowshipped, they have a hard time with how to shun us. Basically, they don't. Every once in a while they make a new friend in their congregation and are convinced that shunning us is the best solution. About the time my son was born, this happened with my in-laws. They actually called us and asked, "Can we pick up our grandson, and take him to dinner?" To which we said, "why don't we all go?" They paused and said, "We really should not have any social connect with former Witnesses." Well we said, "no." Time went on and we forbid them to see our son, and they missed out on three months of seeing him grow. They even came by once and asked to see him, I asked them to leave and never return. They cried and another week went by, and they called and asked us all out to dinner as a family and it was business as usual from that point on. My spouse and I do not play around, in fact, we are quite mean in our handling of family members attempting to shun. You know what though, it works. For us at least it works and no one even tries it anymore. In fact, my in-laws have even come to Thanksgiving Dinner, Birthday parties and other "no no" events, to keep on our good side. All I can say, "not on my watch!" will these type of games of "shunning" happen in family. Former friends, who cares, I don't even remember most now ... been ten years. Family, another subject all together and I feel fortunate that it has never been a huge issue.

Anyone else ever get the, "I want to see your children, but shun you!" speech or comment?

23

Hours of work, to get those talks right, and most people were not listening

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i remember one time i worked on a talk about a week.

looking up points, cross referencing ideas, and then i get up there and i just knew most people were either asleep mentally or not paying any attention.

who could blame them, i set in the front row doing microphones and i could hardly keep my eyes open.

free2beme

I remember one time I worked on a talk about a week. Looking up points, cross referencing ideas, and then I get up there and I just knew most people were either asleep mentally or not paying any attention. Who could blame them, I set in the front row doing microphones and I could hardly keep my eyes open. Yet I spent all that time, all those hours to get it right, and nothing ... except for the canned comment "I enjoyed your talk." I always wanted to ask, "... which part?" I never did though, as I know they just made that comment to be nice and didn't really remember it. Did you ever feel that way too, "Hours of work, to get those talks right, and most people were not listening?"

25

We're all hypocrites!

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i firmly believe that if you talk to someone long enough and know someone long enough, you will learn they are a hypocrite.

i don't think anyone can remain on one theme in their life forever and stick with it, as life is just to much about change to allow this and the human experience is about learning and changing.

when i see people quote others and yell the inevitable "hypocrite" comment in their direction.

free2beme

Good quotes

14

Is the Christian god a spoiled brat?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i was thinking today, as i dealt with my son trying to throw a fit for not getting something he wanted, "you know this kind of behavior makes him look like a spoiled brat.

" yet it also makes him act like the christian god, so maybe that is something the world would accept.

you see, when the bible mentions this loving god, then describe him like this .... god created mankind (the first couple) with free will.

free2beme

I see the Christian god and the Jewish god as the same God, only with two very different personalities. Which to me is a contradiction of what Christianity teaches. In that Christianity teaches that God is love, and yet reading the old Testament you see he is jealous, angry and not very loving. In fact, his lack of respect for the life of all those who do not worship him, bothered me even as a child. I was actually feeling pity for those armies slaughtered, just simply because they were born to a different blood line. Yet with such joy it was done and mentioned. Now in my original post, I mentioned that the two books of the Bible (Old and New) are two different religions. Yet they are together and have desurbing traits that do not seem like something worthy of envy.

Now think about this for a example, when mixing them together. Is God guilty of premeditated murder of his own son? Why would I say this, well he prophesied how he would be born, how he would live and show signs of who he was and how he would die. Now in order for these events to happen, it makes me wonder "would the devil actually read these same prophecies and become a puppet of God and do exactly what his enemy asked?" It seems to me that Jehovah would have had to make sure these things happen the way he planned and foretold. That is premeditated and since he died, with what appears to be divine intervention and the Divine is the God, then that is murder. Right?

You see, my views are the dark side of Christian reality. I see the story, know the story and think about it a lot as I grow older. Sometimes a light bulb goes off and I throw one of those ideas out too see reaction. Sometimes the reaction is, "wow, never thought about it that way." Sometimes a question about faith that is never seen in such a negative light, is met with a lot of confusion. As I spoke about in another thread on judgement in Christianity, I can honestly trace any belief in Christianity to judgement. Now does that mean I see all my Christian friends as fools. No! If I come across that way, sorry. I just like to get discussions going sometimes on issues that seem to be ignored, but they are there if you look at it enough. Guess that is what happens when you watch C.S.I. to much.

JamesThomas, I actually misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that my subject was a unloving thing to do and something you did not think was right for this board. I misunderstand things too.

25

We're all hypocrites!

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i firmly believe that if you talk to someone long enough and know someone long enough, you will learn they are a hypocrite.

i don't think anyone can remain on one theme in their life forever and stick with it, as life is just to much about change to allow this and the human experience is about learning and changing.

when i see people quote others and yell the inevitable "hypocrite" comment in their direction.

free2beme

if I don't practice what I preach, I'm a hypocrite, no if's or but's about it.

Actually, you may actually just be coming out of a cocoon of development and learning who you really are. Not a hypocrite, but someone realizing you do not believe what you preach.

14

Is the Christian god a spoiled brat?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i was thinking today, as i dealt with my son trying to throw a fit for not getting something he wanted, "you know this kind of behavior makes him look like a spoiled brat.

" yet it also makes him act like the christian god, so maybe that is something the world would accept.

you see, when the bible mentions this loving god, then describe him like this .... god created mankind (the first couple) with free will.

free2beme

In answer to the question you raised: No, the Christian God is not a spoiled brat. But I am beginning to wonder about you.

Wow, felt the need to tell me off, did you? In any sense, your comment is not backed up by anything. I explained why I see god as a spoiled brat and you simply say "he is not." How about some thought provoking ideas here, or maybe even something I could think about. Instead you want to express a limit to my speaking freedom and say, no, without discussing this. Sounds like talking to my Witness relatives when I say something they are afraid to think about, they just say "no" and avoid the subject.

I think my subject is a good one by the way ... I do spoil myself a lot though. I admit that, I want pizza tonight and I am going to buy a pizza.

If we really care about people, is it wrong to point this out?

Your standing in quick sand, but I don't want to offend you by telling you. In case you meant to stand in quick sand, or maybe even you were a quick sand worshipper. You know, I value the fact that someone said something to me as a Witness that made me uncomfortable enough to go further and to avoid any warnning or negative in a religion is never healthy. You yourself expressed this and I know you must realize I am saying something that is true.

15

Did you have a "third" hall for the Theocratic Ministry School?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i have never been to a congregation where they had a third hall for talks.

is it rare to have a third school?

free2beme

Hardly ever used it, but yes we did.