Posts by cellomould

16

Are you still an eschatologist?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

are you still an eschatologist?

here is what merriam-webster's dictionary online dictionary says about eschatology:.

main entry: eschatology .

cellomould

Yeah Skipper I hear you... what's the big deal anyhow?

I will die one day. Why be obsessed over whether all other humans on earth will die on the same day? I guess I am proud not to be an eschatologist.

As unlikely as it is that humans will be wiped out by some global catastrophe, even more unlikely is it that all life will be wiped out. There are still many types of life that don't even require oxygen(i.e. anaerobic bacteria). Some of these might adapt quite well if, for example, global CO2 levels skyrocketed and oxygen levels plummetted. What's 'armageddon' for one species can mean 'heaven' for another species.

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

19

Was leaving easy for you?

by Preston in

i was contemplating today on how easy it was for me to leave the congregation compared to what many people here had to deal with.

i mean, all the letters, judicial committees, family breakdowns were not really something i had to deal with.

the worst thing i had to deal with was when a couple of elders inquired if i ever "acted on" my being gay.

cellomould

It has been difficult for me to deal with my parents since my two brother's had already been disfellowshipped; I was supposed to be the 'upright and obedient' oldest son.

Well, I grew up, mentally and emotionally. It happened so quickly (within the last 1.5 yrs) that I haven't been able to communicate properly and assert myself. I don't know if I should assert myself with them. It may hurt them. [:?]

I find it rather amusing now that the P.O. of my old congregation used what I had told him in a private conversation in one of his talks the following week. This was perhaps a 'marking' talk.

He said, 'any one who doesn't believe in the ransom of Jesus has no reason to be here!'

What a punk, eh?

My emotional attachments are so thin now that I have considered initiating a conversation with all the elders and telling them where I stand. Not to be emotionally confrontational, but definitely to challenge them intellectually.

Some may look within themselves honestly. Most probably will not. But I do know one elder in particular who may benefit from a healthy discussion.

Anyhow, you have a point in that most of the 'uneasiness' comes from our own insecurities. If you accept yourself, you won't have a hard time 'coming out' so to speak.

While I am not gay, by the way, I have a friend who is still in and struggling with these issues. He still doesn't have the courage to speak it, but I just know there's something there, let's say.

Any ideas to make leaving easier for him?

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

12

CALL THIS...THIS IS A MUST LISTEN!!!!!!!!

by ashitaka in

jw
friends

call this phone number and listen..... 213-213-6070

cellomould

It tells me the number has been changed to:

510-809-4466

Very funny! hahahahaha

Hey Ashi, do you live in Ca? I do. So the 1st call wasn't long distance for me. Hehehehe.

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

14

The Stark & Iannaccone study on JW growth!

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

you may find this professional paper done by rodney stark & laurence r.iannaccone on why the jehovah's witnesses grow so rapidly:a theoretical application that appeared in the journal of contemporary religionto well be worth your time to read through carefully.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:3ta2px7hy6ec:lsb.scu.edu/econrel/downloads/jwgrow-o.pdf+future+growth+of+jehovah%27s+witnesses&hl=en&ie=utf-8.

the abstract:.

cellomould

Yeah, Larc,

That's what I was getting at! There was a huge deceleration from 1975-1980, after which the speed picked up again.

You kinda wonder if what is happening now (low growth) is a short-term trend. After all, there are still plenty of ignorant but as of yet unindoctrinated people left in the US.

So how do we save the ignorant?

Actually, perhaps going through the JW system is part of the learning process for some people. They may be scarred a bit, but they will be better for it in the end.

I think that in understanding I am far ahead of many of my contemporaries due to my JW experiences. Not that I started off ignorant. Hehehehe.

Comments?

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

14

My thoughts on the flood

by Sargon in

i know that the flood has been discussed ad-nauseum on this site, but i only just got a copy of the march 1, 2002 wt and figured i'd put my .

2cents worth in.

besides that with this posting i become a senior member so i thought i'd say something semi-intelligent for a change.. the wt with it's ever circular reasoning concludes that because so many societies have a flood myth, and because they all have many points in common, that this corroborates the bibles ancient testimony.. on page 4 of this wt, there is a chart denoting the similarities of many of these myths.

cellomould

Sorry for the confusion folks.

I read the better explanation of the translation error after I had posted.

My personal explanation of what I perceived to be a translation error
("old light") was as follows:

900 or so years divided by 12 gives a total life span of about 75 years. I thought it was quite plausible that the ages of childbearing (which I didn't ignore as you postulated, aC ) were simply insertions to give more weight to the histories.

Considering that many numbers in the Bible are symbolic (i.e. Jesus' 40 days of fasting in the wilderness), how unlikely is it that later authors would fudge with numbers a little to add credibility?

So why divide by 12? Because the ancients would have counted their ages in months, not years, if at all. The moon's cycles are an easy way to keep track of time, while the sun's cycles are virtually impossible to follow without a detailed study of astronomy. The introduction of the solar calendar would change this. (And we know the Babylonians developed a nice solar calendar system.)

The ancients' vocabulary would have no word for years, only months, before the invention of a solar calendar. There would be of course an enormous potential for translation errors from any ancient texts (if they already had writing), since it could be taken for granted that the 'age' was given in solar years rather than lunar months.

Quite plausible, in my opinion. But there is a better theory, if what we read about the Sumerians' numerical system is true.

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

14

The Stark & Iannaccone study on JW growth!

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

you may find this professional paper done by rodney stark & laurence r.iannaccone on why the jehovah's witnesses grow so rapidly:a theoretical application that appeared in the journal of contemporary religionto well be worth your time to read through carefully.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:3ta2px7hy6ec:lsb.scu.edu/econrel/downloads/jwgrow-o.pdf+future+growth+of+jehovah%27s+witnesses&hl=en&ie=utf-8.

the abstract:.

cellomould

Interesting points:

From 1980 to 1994 the JWs in the US grew by 64%

The number of American publishers rose by 15% between 1973 and 1974!

A more reasonable estimate of the JW membership is 9.4 million (worldwide, 1994). This roughly accounts for the discrepancy between the publisher numbers and the number of those who identify themselves as JWs.

"It seems clear that only because the Witnesses do not allow free riding, they are able to generate the commitment needed to put publishers on millions of doorsteps every year."

"Observers believe that Witnesses in Africa and Latin America are substantially better educated, and more apt to have technical training than the average citizen."

"It is of interest that Witnesses are about as likely as average Americans to have been divorced."

Trends are funny, aren't they?

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

6

This proves it is true!

by ChuckD in

i just read this on www.randi.org, and though it interesting;.

reader joe ridgel sends me this hypothetical exchange, which i'd not seen before, between one (c) who argues that the accounts in the bible prove christian claims to be true, and another (d) who disputes that premise.

d: was there a road named route 66?

cellomould

Wow!

Impeccable logic!

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

1

a humble woman - fighting against religious contro

by singsongboi in

jw
friends

at the launch of the sydney gay & lesbian mardi gras 2002, in the forecourt of the sydney opera house on feb 8, a keynote speaker was a str8 woman.. nan mcgrregor is an unlikely warrior - to me looked just like one of the faithful sisters that sat ignored in meeting after meeting.

but in her heart there is a heroism that makes her special.. as one of the rainbow sash movement she wore a rainbow sash and asked to recieve holy communion in a catholic mass presided over by archbishop george pell.. she spoke of her heart searching before deciding to defy an elder of her church, and of how she felt kneeling for communion, as pell glowered threateningly at her..

interesting!!!

cellomould

Maybe she wanted a sex change operation and was told not to, singsongboi???!

Lol lol lol @ your comments in the Nipples/bellybutton post!

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

14

My thoughts on the flood

by Sargon in

i know that the flood has been discussed ad-nauseum on this site, but i only just got a copy of the march 1, 2002 wt and figured i'd put my .

2cents worth in.

besides that with this posting i become a senior member so i thought i'd say something semi-intelligent for a change.. the wt with it's ever circular reasoning concludes that because so many societies have a flood myth, and because they all have many points in common, that this corroborates the bibles ancient testimony.. on page 4 of this wt, there is a chart denoting the similarities of many of these myths.

cellomould

Here's a hint on the translation errors for the ages of Methuselah et al: divide by 12!

Not at all a coincidence.

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

6

Was Adam 'Perfect'?

by cellomould in

that is actually an inference.

read genesis again.

recently, other folks here have mentioned the 'flaming sword' anachronism, the serpent 'eating dust', and the actual statement by god that 'man had become like us, knowing good and bad' (i.e.

cellomould

oh, I'll try to read the French perhaps tomorrow. I'm sure I could get most of it if I weren't so tired... actually, the longer the words the better, cause more likely to be from Latin and thus have English equivalents. Hehehe hehe he

cellomould

"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ