zagor

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Posts by zagor

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  97

  Was Jesus Created?

  by 9thWonder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was jesus created?

  this question came out of a discussion i was having with a preacher of a no-denominational church.

  he was trying to convince me of the truth of the trinity doctrine.

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  zagor

  It’s a simple question which requires a simple answer. As we are told that God chose the foolish ones over the wise even I would understand a simple yes or no from the mouth of the only one who can tell us.

  Reoccurring question of trinity eh? This above is really the essence of it. Did simple minded first christians believe in trinity? Or did trinity idea have its development period? And of course there is always question of how Jesus revealed himself to his disciples . So if he told those simple-minded people he was a son of god what do you think they would understand it as? Would they try to make complicated constructs or would they just take his word for it? It is not anymore about what his real nature is but how he wanted to be revealed.

  Perhaps he was an alien from another dimension, and wanted to relate his nature in a way simple-minded fishermen could understand

  Anyway, here is a thread I started not long ago about similar topic. Have a read.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92969/1.ashx
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  36

  How many true scholars/scientists are there really among JWs?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question i've been puzzled by ever since my days in the borg.

  everywhere i looked i saw tradesmen, cleaner, auto-mechanics here and there some computer technician.

  and i do know there are two doctors, one gp and one specialist in the field of drug rehabilitation.. i've heard stories of some being true scholars though.

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  zagor

  I can confirm this as about a year and a half ago I recieved a disfavourable look from the CO when I mentioned I was studying Bio Genetics and writing a thesis on it for the U of A. He looked at me and in a sneering way said "Bio-Genetics!! Its called being content with the basics in life".

  Isn't this a typical sh*t. Of course they would never comment about dubs in Africa who are below basics of life.
  Since we are talking about Africa, I've heard "encouraging experience" the other day. Elder dub talked to my sis about missionaries in one African country (I think it was Zaire) So he said how "heart worming" it was when after missionaries finished their meal local brothers came in to eat all the leftover so that nothing goes to waste. Wow. How "encouraging" that really is. Wonder if he would eat somebody's leftovers. Surely those in Zaire have basics of life sorted so this was only to show by example how not to waste food. He just forgot to mention that most of them have one meal in two days if they are lucky.
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  36

  How many true scholars/scientists are there really among JWs?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question i've been puzzled by ever since my days in the borg.

  everywhere i looked i saw tradesmen, cleaner, auto-mechanics here and there some computer technician.

  and i do know there are two doctors, one gp and one specialist in the field of drug rehabilitation.. i've heard stories of some being true scholars though.

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  zagor

  My Dad. an elder, was an architect and and electrical and nuclear design engineer. He worked for Stone & Webster, one of the largest engineering firms in the world for 38 years. He was asked to work on the Manhattan Project, and turned it down because he was a JW. He was raised in the organization, but didn't agree with their disdain for education. He butted heads regularly with jws on that subject.

  Thanx coffee_black that was a great little experience. Would love to hear from others too.

  And again, intention of this thread is not really to measure the size of anyone's brainpan here but to find out how many true scientists are there among JW, what attracted them to the religion and how do they cope in that sort of community where education is frowned upon. Why that is such a touchy subject I really don't know . Another related question (which has been touched a little already) is how much such people have influence on what WTBS writes in its magazines.
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  95

  Questioning the Big Bang Theory

  by Rod P in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  but halton arp's continuing research will forever change the direction of astronomy.

  or do our observations of nature show things that a theory says are impossible?

  gamow had argued that the stars' temperatures are too low to create elements heavier than helium.

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  zagor

  Taken from the text http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch/041001quasar-galaxy.htm

  Look at the picture again. By the big bang principles, this quasar must be billions of light years farther from us than the galaxy, because its redshift is so much larger. And yet the galaxy is opaque, so the quasar must be near the surface of the dust clouds or even in front of them.

  No necessarily, light from quasars are brightest objects in known universe, so I don't see difficulty in its light penetrating outer reaches of galaxy cloud.

  However, I know about that case and I understand your point and there is still a lot to be considered. For now at least this is only an anomaly. Here is another article from more reputable source:

  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050111115201.htm
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  17

  hanging onto old thought processes

  by rebel8 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as a jw child, i learned to use the following "logic":decide what you want to believe before you research or learn about it.

  (at the time, it was whatever the wts told me to believe.

  )when you come across anything that supports your belief, accept it.when you come across anything that refutes your belief, reject it.repeat steps 2-4 indefinitely.. as far as i recall, i pretty much realized this faulty thought process before i left the jws and stopped doing it.

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  zagor

  you might find interesting to check out one of mine latest threads then

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/94165/1.ashx
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  110

  Great Experiences- I was serfing the net ad came across APOSTATES

  by You People Are All Idiots in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  wow, yeah i was looking fr the theocratic ministry school oral review questions and i came across an apostate site!

  the site was www.jehovahs-witness.com and was just fill of retarded apostates!

  they were not only using a domain name and header name that denotes a conection with the actual watchtower society, but where using it to blasphem the jehovah's true organization in order to help people break away.

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  zagor

  Mate, so 100.000.000 sperms and you were the fastest???

  But hey its not your fault.

  Anyway. Sooo, you basically had to join this site and us to tell us that. Don't you know that once you join apostate site you become an apostate yourself by definition?

  And mate, your grammar is true reflection of theocratic school quality.

  and that people who are LOOKING for the wrong info can no what the site represents

  wh, wh, what?

  Going to the Internet to get stuff for your talk?!? So there's not enough material on WTBS CD-ROM? don't you know who live on the Internet?
  

  Or were you just looking for good old porn as your dad do at night? (with your right hand of course)

  Nuff said.
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  36

  How many true scholars/scientists are there really among JWs?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question i've been puzzled by ever since my days in the borg.

  everywhere i looked i saw tradesmen, cleaner, auto-mechanics here and there some computer technician.

  and i do know there are two doctors, one gp and one specialist in the field of drug rehabilitation.. i've heard stories of some being true scholars though.

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  zagor

  Did not think this question would strike the nerve with some of you. And I think you did take me out of context. So here it is again:

  Don’t want to make anyone feel offended but this is reality. It doesn’t mean that someone is nuts if he/she doesn’t have these stratosphere degrees

  I don't have PhD either so I suppose I've included myself in this description. My point was how someone can authoritatively discuss science (or ancient languages for that matter) if they don't have adequate qualifications.
  Because lets not forget WTBS takes stuff which is often at the edge of science (biological, astronomical or some other) and paints its own picture for masses to read.

  But perhaps I'm wrong perhaps old guys up in Brooklyn have all right to question established science, at least according to what you guys write.

  And I find it difficult to believe that carpenter qualifies as a scholar any more than would a scientist qualify as a professional tradesman. Scholar is someone who has many years of recognized research, full stop.
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  10

  Would Jesus give an answer to “apostate's” questions?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well if we look in bible we would have to conclude: yes he would.

  even if we were to assume characteristics that wtbs is attributing to us we would have to say that jesus would still give an answer.

  look in matthew chapter 4 where he apparently even gave answer to an ultimate apostate, he was neither silent nor did he try to avoid confrontation, he (jesus) according to bible, even used opportunity to his own advantage.

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  zagor

  Do you think it might be more likely that he would likely answer with a question, and make you think for yourself (in an uncomfortable, but "real" kinda way)?

  I don't know but if I'm to belive what the bible say he would certainly give an answer that's appropriate for the situation at hand. HE WOULDN'T IGNORE someone asking questions as WTBS does.
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  64

  Inappropriate "shepherding" calls.

  by avishai in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many have recieved calls by the elders that were under the guise of "shepherding", but somehow inappropriate, i.e, you were a woman alone with only one elder showing up, or you felt physically intimidated by both.

  or say they show up at like, 10:30 at night for a shepherding call.

  and you say "hey, i appreciate the visit but please call first!

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  zagor

  How many have recieved calls by the elders that were under the guise of "shepherding", but somehow inappropriate, i.e, you were a woman alone with only one elder showing up, or you felt physically intimidated by both.

  My sis who is still a dub recently had a visit by two elders. She was alone and they knew she would be alone. They wanted to come inside but she wouldn't let them which they apparently "couldn't understand"
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  10

  Would Jesus give an answer to “apostate's” questions?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well if we look in bible we would have to conclude: yes he would.

  even if we were to assume characteristics that wtbs is attributing to us we would have to say that jesus would still give an answer.

  look in matthew chapter 4 where he apparently even gave answer to an ultimate apostate, he was neither silent nor did he try to avoid confrontation, he (jesus) according to bible, even used opportunity to his own advantage.

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  zagor

  Well if we look in bible we would have to conclude: YES HE WOULD.

  Even if we were to assume characteristics that WTBS is attributing to us we would have to say that Jesus would still give an answer. Look in Matthew Chapter 4 where he apparently even gave answer to an ultimate apostate, he was neither silent nor did he try to avoid confrontation, he (Jesus) according to bible, even used opportunity to his own advantage.

  Likewise, if you read anywhere else in gospels you’ll see that he never shied away from giving straight and intelligent answer. In fact one would get an impression that he used opportunity to strengthen his authority by giving proper way of looking at things. (Matthew 12:24-28, Matthew Chapter 16, Matthew Chapter 22, Mark Chapter 2, Mark 12:28-34, Luke 11:16-54, etc.)

  Many (now proclaimed apostates) were DFd for asking “inappropriate questions” and/or for arriving at their own conclusions. And many dubs are taking that as a word from heavens. No one stops to wonder that asking question is in fact encouraged by the bible itself as the only proper way of arriving at the truth. (Acts 17:11, Proverbs 2:1-10)

  How can someone hold the whole truth and be afraid of someone else asking questions, boggles my mind. I remember comments of some pioneer dubs who found someone to have B study with, that person was asking too many question! Imagine that!