zagor

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Posts by zagor

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  22

  Now that you are out, do you have a WANDERING EYE?

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  after many years of repression do you now find hard to restrain you natural feelings?

  it doesnt have to be wrong as one cousin told me, you admire beauty of the sunset, the song of birds; you appreciate exotic meal and equally you can now more appreciate the natural beauty of opposite sex.

  reason why im asking is because today ive met a dub from my former congdubgration who immediately assumed i was "immoral".

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  zagor

  After many years of repression do you now find hard to restrain you natural feelings?
  
  
  
  
  Reason why I’m asking is because today I’ve met a dub from my former congdubgration who immediately assumed I was "immoral". When I gave him above analogy he was dumbstruck and left. (even though I’m not really wandering, already have a great gf)
  
  
  
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  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  G’day Hmike, how are you doin?

  We don't really know what this refers to; we can only speculate

  For you to make such an authoritative statement you would have to speak about something I know nothing about. Hebrew is certainly not one of those things. Genesis 1:26 uses two words Tsehlem and Demuth.

  tseh'-lem -image - from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, or figuratively - illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially in the case of an idol, something cut out Same word is used in Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image [tselem].” As well as in Leviticus 26:1, Psalam 106:19, Isaiah 40 :18-20 and Isaiah 44: 9-17

  demuth -Likeness – similitude, likeness or similitude of external appearance, in likeness of, like as. “An exact duplication in kind" (Savelle, 1990, 141).

  Both image and likeness are used in their singular form. On the other hand personal pronoun "Our" (btselemnou kidmusainu) doesn’t leave any doubt that those addressed could have seen, in new creation (man), characteristics they themselves possessed.

  Hence, demanding that man was created in either of two possibilities:

  1. If god is trinity man was created in “Our” image i.e. representing all three divine entities.

  2. God was talking to someone else with similar characteristics. Rabbinic tradition says he was talking to angels – however since we are already quoting Greek scripture we might as well one more Colossians 1:15 –17.

  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist.

  This would indeed elevate Jesus to an extraordinarily high position of being image of invisible god and firstborn of all creation, hence having very similar characteristics. In either case the man when created was a true physical manifestation of god’s spiritual characteristics and qualities, i.e. he was in true sense a Son of God (Luke 3:38).

  No hard feelings

  Good morning WP

  Thank you for pointing that out, I actually know what was meaning of the thread since I’ve started it, besides as the thread progressed it went beyond whether Genesis 1:26 only support trinity into whether it proves it. The thread on the other hand was not about existence of the soul (nephesh).
  Good thing to point out is that doctrine of soul (nephesh) has had it development over the centuries. Even today it means different things to different groups. Regardless of whether there is one or not (which I was neither promoting not disputing I my argument) I simply pointed at complexity such argument poses when used to make comparison between divine trinity and human (body, soul, spirit – godhead, Jesus, holy spirit).

  LT,

  Book of Enoch was found among other books in Dead See Scrolls (DSS), if we are to believe scholars that DSS were left by Jewish Essene community we have to accept that the Book of Enoch was widely available long before the first Christian church was established. In fact even Jude quotes from it in his book Jude 14, 15.

  I’ve visited your site and listened to your talk. Man that took balls. If I didn’t hear it with my own ears I wouldn’t believe it. You are truly brave man. Hope we will have many more constructive conversations
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  19

  Welcome, Bagira!!!

  by OldSoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we have a new poster named bagira!.

  welcome, bagira!!!.

  whether you step on toes or not, some here will like you, and others, meh, not so much.

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  zagor

  Welcome to the club Bagira
• 
  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  LT, I'm reading it now, still half way through it. But I'm not convinced at all to be honest; many of those things can be explained differently. I've also pulled out the book of Enoch which clearly called Jesus the Elect One

  Chapter 39: 6a And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith, 7a And I saw his dwelling-place under the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

  Apparently, the elect one and lord of the spirits are two quite distinct personalities i.e. different bodies, different ranks, different everything However, I do respect your view and I can see now why many believe in trinity. In any case original question of this thread was whether Genesis 1:26 proves trinity. Meaning that man would also have to manifest trinity within him. Statement that those three components are actually body, mind and spirit really doesn’t convince me as I’ve already explained in my previous post. But I do respect that our views and angles of looking at things may differ. No hard feelings.
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  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  
  LittleToe, I've really had in mind only Hebrew part of the bible. But even if I was to consider the scripture you’ve quoted from Greek part of the bible that would pose another problem. According to that understanding human being can only exist if all three of those components (body, soul and spirit) are present.

  If any of those depart life as such (human life) ceases to exist, am I wrong? If divine being a.k.a god has the same nature that would imply that god would cease to exist the moment Jesus’ life form departed heaven and came to earth to become human.

  Similarly, it would certainly cease to exist when he died on the cross. Also him being a human, and part of the god makes another problem since he would also have in possession three human components (body, soul, and spirit). So when he died which part of him did cease to exist??? To me personally all of this sound a bit likes Egyptian mysticism which I did study and know a lot about so we can discuss it if you wish. That certainly, doesn’t sound like anything Jews believed in.

  After all bible alleges that they had to flee Egypt because of “impure” religion. If their religious beliefs were similar or indeed related then there would be no need for it would there? Similarly, one could liken that to Hindu or Buddhist belief of reincarnation, which is something utterly strange to Judeo-Christian way of understanding the life and divinity.

  Or could it be that bible is not really contradicting itself at all? Could it be that problem is with our linguistic understanding of the text? I have a privilege of being of mixed origin, and I know that in some of those cultures people use plural when addressing an individual as a sign of respect. Who is to say that ancient Jews didn’t do the same?

  On another note, I do have to side with WT at least on this point, i.e. there are enough of other scriptures that specifically say that life, both physical body and thinking abilities, cease to exist at the time of death. Even Jesus compared Lazarus’s state of death as sleep not as “departed soul”

  So rational person would then ask which scriptures are correct. Rightfully so a rational person would doubt if bible is really inspired word of god if there are major inconsistencies.
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  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  Couldn't upload the text but even if you go here you'll get a good idea

  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm
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  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!
  I’ve read all your post but cannot help but wonder if trinity is right explanation. I’ve started this thread more as a fun exercise to see how people are thinking. But then it struck me how almost everybody is missing one fundamentally critical point. Bible as such was written in language that was to be understood by simple-minded people of ancient Middle East. I wonder if any of them when reading scriptures was going after mathematical-like, highly-complex inter-referencing in order to conclude that God has multiple personalities or beings as a part of his makeup.
  I think this though would have been quite strange to those simple peasants, fishermen or shepherds. Indeed, even today Jews are rejecting such thought as strange (not to use more derogative term). Or take it another way, forget for the moment you are reading the Bible. Say you are reading a book about Leonardo da Vinci who was making sculpture in his image, what would you think?
  Would you still try to make complex inter-referencing as in the case of the Bible or would you simple take it as an informative remark? Or if you’ve read elsewhere (not in the bible) that father and the son went together to do some creative work, would you apply same complex reasoning as in the case of bible in order to prove that two of them are, in a way, the one? I’ve only started studying Hebrew about 7 months ago, but can someone with more linguistic expertise in Hebrew tell me if what you read below is anything other than a passing remark.
  
  (correction: trying to upload some hebrew text)
• 
  92

  Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???

  by zagor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen several comments about trinity, so here goes another one: .

  please read again genesis 1:26

  this is very interesting paragraph and many times is being used as a proof of trinity as it says let us create .

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  zagor

  Cf., in the second story, 3:5,22: "you will be like gods, knowing (plural) good and evil" / "See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil".

  But that still doens’t explains statement that man was created in god's image. When man was created he obviously (according to bible) didn't know what is good and what is evil (that came in later after he sinned). Such knowledge was not a part of his original makeup in any way. So when bible talks about man being created in god's image it must have something else in mind. And it simply states in "in god's image" or "likeness" which is descriptive of fundamental characteristics of god's own nature. Hence man would also have to have three persons as part of his being.
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  101

  OK smarty pants, post something simple that most people don't know.

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets see if you guys know the answer to this simple question.. .

  if you have a car with a mechanical speedometer and odometer, not digital, and if you back up, will your mileage on the dial back up?.

  7 miles on the odometer and you back up, for a few hundred feet, will the mileage also back up slowly to 47,108.6 and so on....?.

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  zagor

  
  Believe it or not, the animals contribute to global warming through their daily fart emissions. And the animal that gives most of output is the humble termite. Because of their diet and digestive processes (with more than the usual microbial assistance), they produce as much methane as human industry. Termite farts are believed to be a major contributor towards global warming.

  Recent research has shown that most methane produced by cows and sheep emerges from the mouth rather than the anus. So one could more accurately say that cow and sheep belches are contributing to global warming. New Zealand researchers are investigating methods of breeding methane-free sheep.
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  21

  Did You Get "Butterflies" Everytime The Elders Wanted To Speak To You?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking back, i can see how the elders could "terrorize" different persons.

  some people are shy by nature.

  others were trained from their previous religions to be in subjection to the "shepherds".

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  zagor

  Nope, they usually got "Butterflies" when I wanted to talk to them