I rather suspect that Farkel knew exactly what he was going to get when telling people what they can and can't post on a public thread and forum.
I can't believe that I'm in the position of having to agree with Burn the ships.
Posts by Caedes
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128Trash THIS!
by Farkel inhere is an interesting challenge for the folks.
this thread revolves around one subject, and that is thomas paine's brilliant critique of the bible written in about 1795. he did most of this from memory, while in prison in france.. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/.
the challenge is this: critique his essays.
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20
FAITH DEFINED. Heb 11:1 REALLY bad in NWT. Also Richard Dawkins' definition
by Open mind ini'm still slogging through "the god delusion" by richard dawkins, thanks in no small measure to spending too much time on jwd.
anyway, at lunch today i read dawkins, simple, elegant, somewhat embarrasing definition of faith:.
belief without evidence.
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Caedes
Shazard,
I may be misunderstanding you for obvious reasons.
There is nothing to prove that last thursday-ism is not true so yes at a fundamental level we all take on faith that the world is as our senses describe it to us. This problem is not restricted to materialism we all assume this.
Problem is that Dawkins is poore phylosopher!
Starting off with an ad hominem is a poor way to make a serious point.
The definition of faith is perfectly acceptable if you are talking about religous faith or faith in any form of the supernatural. Faith as a word has multiple meanings, this in no way undermines that definition.
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14
Top 50 Atheism Quotes
by What-A-Coincidence intop 50 atheism quotes.
.
http://leftofzen.com/quotes-atheism/2008/01/14/
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Caedes
Thomas Jefferson
17. Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
My own favourite
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53
God is patient
by freedomfighter ina hell of alot more patient than me.
if only i had his power balanced with justice, wisdom and above all else love.. no more rapes, no more murder, no more suffering.
no more child abuse.. but who do i think i am to question him.. ff.
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Caedes
What is it about God's plan of salvation don't you understand? He offers to take the punishment deserved by us and to direct that wrath toward his own being that he wrought on the cross. Then, while we are still alive he offers to inhabit us by means of the Holy Spirit so that our victory over sin can be increasingly experienced now as a testimony to his glory.
That is a difficult question to answer since I have no idea what your interpretation of scripture would be. Since I have no basis for believing in even the most basic premise of your faith I will have to answer based on what you have posted. Aside from your assumptions that there is a god and something called holy spirit and someone called jesus, you have assumed that we deserve punishment (on what basis?) The person responsible both for our existance (and sinful nature of course! ) and judgement can also save us from himself and for what? For his own glory and worship! Wow that's some deal you have there!
Suppose you broke a bunch of traffic laws and you went before a judge and just after he totalled up all the fines, a stranger walked up and whispered in your ear that he'd like to not only pay your fines but also to magically make your desire to drive wrecklessly go away. Would you take the offer?
Well I would have to say no, I did the crime so I will pay for it. I am an adult and I accept full responsibility for my actions, and I certainly dont want to have my free choice taken away. I drive responsibly because I am an adult and am aware of the damage I could cause if I don't. I certainly don't need to be lobotomised in order to obey the eminently sensible traffic laws.
What about you? do you only obey the law because that is what it tells you to do in your holy book or church or because your pastor told you?
As children of wrath made fit for destruction, our natural tendency is to push the stranger out of the way, grab the baliff's gun and shoot the judge, thus eliminating the threat to our unbridled self-determination. Ok, so I watch too many action flicks, but you get the point.
Made fit for destruction? Only according to you and your interpretation of christianity (roundly rejected by most christians I might add) No, our natural tendency is not to start shooting people who are simply doing their job of ensuring safe streets for people to drive on. It might well be your tendency in which case I'm very glad that your religous faith stops you from going postal everytime you get stopped for speeding (please dont stop the praying! )
We simply do not want him by nature, religion,sometimes yes - God, no. So, we seek to do what you are doing. What I personally think doesn't really matter. You'll have an opportunity to present your case on Judgment Day. Unless of course you choose to listen to that whisper and enter into a "plea" agreement.
Lot's of people do want some kind of god figure in their lives, you only need to see the reaction some have to the rise of atheism to see that god is tremendously important to some people.
You seem to be claiming my path is the easier one, that may well be in some areas, not so in others. What do you think it is, I am doing, that is naturally appealling to people? I'm intrigued.
It's good to hear that I will get a fair trial on judgement day, I was getting worried there for a second. So as long as I have a clear conscience then I really don't have to do a thing then? I will carry on living my life as I see fit with my eye firmly on the golden rule.
I afraid I have no voices in my head other than my own conscience of course.
What you don't seem to understand Perry is that I am perfectly willing to stand accountable for my actions (if there is a god like yours) and if your god wishes to damn me for all eternity for some perceived slight by some supposed ancient ancester (assuming you are right again) then your god is deserving of pity not worship.
Of course it seems strange that your god seems to share your prejudices, it's funny how often that happens isn't it.
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32
Does Free Will Allow Evil?
by writetoknow inby dr. mark eastman.
" a proper understanding of this issue not only provides great insight into the nature of god, it ties together a comprehensive understanding to some of life's ultimate questions: the answers to my origin, meaning, morality and destiny!.
the christian worldview is an impractical, even phony, view of the cosmos because it embraces a god who is either incapable of stopping evil and suffering, and he is therefore not omnipotent, or is unwilling to do so and therefore a devil!.
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Caedes
Congratulations wtk,
You appear to have almost made a point all on your own, keep up the good work.
If you go back and read my first point you might pick up on the fact that I personally do not blame your or anyone else's god for suffering, how could I? I'm an atheist, for me this is a hypothetical question, for the purposes of this post I am assuming that your beliefs are correct and that there is a christian god.
What I am trying to get you to question is why 'your' god allows suffering, you believe in him, you tell me. Why does your god allow innocent children to die in earthquakes or of sudden cot death? (or the million other causes of death that you can think of)
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32
Does Free Will Allow Evil?
by writetoknow inby dr. mark eastman.
" a proper understanding of this issue not only provides great insight into the nature of god, it ties together a comprehensive understanding to some of life's ultimate questions: the answers to my origin, meaning, morality and destiny!.
the christian worldview is an impractical, even phony, view of the cosmos because it embraces a god who is either incapable of stopping evil and suffering, and he is therefore not omnipotent, or is unwilling to do so and therefore a devil!.
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Caedes
For the hard of understanding, my point is that I answered your original c&p job (quite sincerely), you couldn't be bothered to reply. I was trying to get out of you how you can defend such an indefensible position, but so far your only action on this thread is to c&p some article and then make snide comments to someone who took the time to respond to you. I have made my point, what is yours? In your own words, if that is not utterly beyond you.
If you feel incapable of answering the points I raised in my first post on this thread then feel free to say so. You are completely niave if you didn't think the title of your thread was 'stirring things up'
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Caedes
I did some research on scientology after one of them approached me in the street, they are crazier than a bag of monkeys.
I have no problem believing that the scientologists did indeed blackmail Kidman. After reading about them I my impression was that they would do anything (quite literally) to avoid bad publicity.
The recent BBC program in which the reporter ended up shouting at the scientologist confirmed my suspicions that this bunch are much worse than the WTBTS.
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Christmas Atheists
by BurnTheShips ina good article, imho.
it describes the different types of atheism and why we should all be respectful of each other.
burn.. january 04, 2008, 0:30 p.m.. .
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Caedes
It is difficult to take seriously an author who on one hand claims that atheists should treat theists as intellectual equals but also claims that atheists of a nihilistic persuasion are prone to being taken in by cultural hoaxes and that other atheists are at the same moral 'level' as the ancient greeks!
All whilst taking cheap ad hominem pot shots at people who the author feels are his political rivals.
Whilst it may be comforting to try and place atheists into little boxes, atheists usually will subscribe to more than one way of thinking.
It is also interesting that the author seems to believe that all ethics are due to religion,
In other words, they remain indebted to inherited Christian moral sentiments
Aside from the issue of what constitutes christian ethics, there is also the problem that it would be just as easy to say that atheist morality owes a debt to the wiccan crede or the golden rule.
As an atheist I have met not one single atheist who subscribes to nihilism, I rather suspect that such thinking has a lot more to do with theist doubters than a common choice of atheists.
The author also seems to believe that Hitler was not genuine in his christianity and that atheism was the reason for fascism and communism, that atheism has no more responsibility for those regimes than theists do for the inquisition or Hitler's concentration camps seems to have escaped him.
His tolerance and humbleness continues on,
Also, seeing clearly the infinity of God’s wisdom and the puniness of their own, Jews and Christians have every reason to be humble of mind, and respectful of the truth in the mind of others, since all humans are made in the image of God, each a partial refraction of his infinite wisdom
Since I as a puny human do not believe in the author's infinitely wise god what hope is there for my philosophy? Or at least that is the intimation for us puny atheists, you might have a few things right (evolution anyone?) but you will be held accountable before my infinite god.
Personally I say peace on earth and goodwill to ALL humans regardless of their human failings.
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53
God is patient
by freedomfighter ina hell of alot more patient than me.
if only i had his power balanced with justice, wisdom and above all else love.. no more rapes, no more murder, no more suffering.
no more child abuse.. but who do i think i am to question him.. ff.
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Caedes
all our species can be ...is lying hypocrits
It's interesting that you take such a dim view of humanity, Perry. I think i can see where you obtained your twisted view of morality.
If I design and build something I am responsible if the item works as I designed it to, If it does not work then it is only me that is responsible to fix it. Your slopey shouldered god can try and deny responsibility but if he is as omnipotent and omniscient as you claim then it is entirely up to him to fix things.
Your desire to condemn all of humanity from the age of birth is your desire, and that desire is entirely incongruous with the concept of a loving god.
Is there freedom in preventing "wrong" choices.
Is there freedom in god killing and torturing millions of people despite not being willing to reveal yourself (beyond all doubt) to everyone on earth?
Our understanding is by necessity limited.
Really, by what necessity?
I would think it is necessary for god to accept us as we are (as he designed us) if his justice is to mean anything at all.
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15
Jehovah's Angels are Sexist. No?
by prophecor ini'm only asking because when the angels fell from heaven, witnessing how beautiful the daughters of the sons of men were, they formulated for themselves, material, fleshly bodies in order to pro-create and do the nasty with some really ancient "hoochie mammas".
no where are we given any indication that these angles ever had, nor did they even desire to have sex with us menz, well, humph,.... i guess we know which of the sexes are truly blessed, then.
genesis 6:1&2.
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Caedes
It's almost as if the inspired word of god just happened to match the prejudices and thinking of the men who wrote it down.
Now I wonder how that could happen? Perhaps it's true of everything else that is written down in the bible?
