I will take that one step further, and say that in my opinion it is easier for any cult/high control group member to stop believing, than for a typical mainstream Christian. Many mainstream Christians are only going through the motions, compared to groups such as LDS, JWs, or WWCG. So much more is demanded of such high control groups. I think it often takes a bit of bitterness toward god/religion to get one started down the atheist path, mainstream Christianity doesn't usually have that much bite, unless say, someone has a very personal tragic event...like the death of a loved one in a tragic or senseless manner, or something to that effect.
AllAlongTheWatchtower
JoinedPosts by AllAlongTheWatchtower
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15
Is it easier for a witness (vs Christian) to stop believing in God?
by Guest with Questions ini dont have any statistics but am curious if there could be any truth to it; that it might be easier for a witness to stop believing vs a christian.
i dont see this at any of the churches i have attended; people leaving in droves with some totally discarding any belief.. 1 the jw org is the only truth.
you question its authority, then you question god.
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What was your first post?
by reneeisorym inlook back to your first post ever... what was it?.
mine was: (topic was: how many did you "bring in").
i brought in my ex husband but he is not active any more.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
This was my first post...sorry 'bout the length:
Hi...new here, not sure if this was the most appropriate thread to jump headfirst into or not, but here I am, causeI feel like I have to start somewhere. First off, a little about myself. I grew up with an organization very similar to JW's, called the Worldwide Church of God. (Info about this group can be found on rickross.com, a very good informative site on cults and near-cults) I bought into most of their crap, but always had questions that they were not able to answer, things like if creationism is true then why can't the ministers explain dinosaur fossils; of that nature. To make a long story short, I was excommunicated, disfellowshipped, or whatever one wishes to call it when I was 13...I was an "evil influence" on the other youth. I am all too familiar with the familial problems that come of choosing religion over blood (no pun on transfusion). My family is still divided to this day, and I am now 33. The terms "worldly" and a few others bring back memories, and not fond ones. I was raised to believe that all other religions are wrong, and it was difficult for me at 13, thinking I was going to hell...I managed to overcome this bias and seek out some teachings of other religions, but none of them appealed to me, or else reminded me so much of the one I had been forced out of that I was repulsed. By the time I was 16, I was what I call a 'devout atheist'. Meaning wild horses would be needed to compell me to go near ANY church, for ANY reason. So much so that even when I got married, it was by a justice of the peace at a park a few blocks from the courthouse.
Which brings me to why I'm here. My wife knew all of this, of course-she could hardly not know, seeing as we didn't have what most would think a 'normal wedding'. Up until recently, she was more or less a non-practicing Christian. Meaning she believed in god, etc, but didn't really go to church except maybe a couple times a year on holidays, with family, etc. Now though, everything is changing. JW's began coming to our door, and at first we joked about it together, she saying she wished they'd just go away, me saying she had to be more firm and just tell them to get lost. She would describe turning off the tv and sitting very still while they knocked over and over on the door. My wife is a very kind hearted person though, and perhaps lacking in ummm whats the word... not aggressiveness....assertiveness, yes, that's it. Eventually she began letting them in, talking to them, etc. Now she is going to meetings on Mon and Wed nights, as well as services on Sun.
I wasn't quite sure how to take all this, at first I suppose for lack of a better response, I was somewhat amused. Almost in the way a scared person will let loose a bit of nervous laughter, I found it sort of funny. Her family (my inlaws) took a much dimmer view of it. A view I am beginning to share, the more I find out about JW's. I only just found this place today while Googling for some sites, and found out about the blood transfusion thing from here. I was not aware of that...hell, I'm not even sure my wife is aware of THAT part. At least we are both A+, if worse ever comes to worst I will look up how to do it and give her blood myself if she gets that far into it.
This has been going on for...oh, 7-8 months I guess, I remember for sure her telling her mother about it when we drove up there for the christmas holiday, so it started sometime in Nov or Dec I guess. Even in that short amount of time though, I see changes...changes in attitude, changes in priority...and they worry me. I read a lot, and I once read something by Kurt Vonnegut where the main character says his only salvation was his wife, they were like a nation of only 2. I used to think of us in this way...used to. We went through so much sh_t when we were only dating as an interracial couple, I thought sure that now that we were married NOTHING could ever come between us. But already she has begun getting annoyed with me if I say something contrary to, or negative in regard to, the JW organization. She was telling me about one of the meetings one day, and mentioned someone referred to as 'the overseer'. I made a joke about his title, and she was upset about it...it lead to something that was somewhere short of an arguement, but not a happy situation, either. Ummm...*blush*...on a more personal level, now she tells me that oral sex is no longer allowed between us, because the JW's say so. That scares me. I don't like the idea of them telling her what is right and wrong between us...that should be, well, between US. It makes me wonder what they might tell her next...especially after reading some of the posts on this board...will the next thing be that she must leave me, a 'nonbeliever'?
Worst of all I think...is that we used to tell each other everything...there was nothing I would hide from my wife, I would tell her the dirty jokes the other guys at work told that day, or anything...no secrets. Yet here I am, with one ear cocked to make sure she is still downstairs in the kitchen, because I don't want her to catch me writing this. I haven't made up my mind what to do yet...but I somehow instinctively know that now is too soon...I must be fully prepared when I get ready to sit down and confront/discuss this with her...I'm not even sure what I am doing here, other than ranting to let off steam...perhaps seeking advice? I dunno...I've mostly seen advice to others on here given as "RUNNNNNNNN!!", and I definitely am not ready to give up. Meh...well, anyway, thanks for reading and letting me rant.
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Why So Many More Atheists in Europe?
by bavman intop 50 countries .
with highest proportion of atheists / agnostics.
(zuckerman, 2005)below is a list of the top fifty countries containing the largest measured percentage of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or non-believer in god.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
I don't trust the stats in that chart, there is too wide of a range in it...some countries with 20 or more points difference between the first and second number quoted. And Israel near the top of the list? That seems a bit farfetched to me, although that could just be biased opinion on my part. Otherwise, rankings mostly made sense, I expected the US to be near the bottom, and I already knew from online friendships that the Scandinavian countries are at the top or close to it.
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Need some help
by GODLOVESME inawile back there was a post about the little boy with the lion.. it was about what the lion would eat.
does any one remember the post #.. i am new to the board and my story is a little different from the rest of you and i will.
get into it lator.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
I think you may mean this, it's almost exactly one year old, not sure what you meant by "a while back"... Not much mention of a little boy, but a lot of speculation on lionfood.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/114086/1.ashx "the lion will eat straw like the lamb..."
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Freestyle Part 2 - if its your time - it wont be crime
by Crumpet intell us how it went in verse or ryhme:.
i had a conversation.
with my ex man.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
I once somewhere read,
that those who can rhyme with ease,
may be wrong in the head,
and suffer from some disease.
Clang speech it's called;
a symptom of schizophrenia,
but don't be apalled,
I doubt that you have it - any of ya!
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Local Needs on Farting! I'm Serious
by mtsgrad inin my decades of the "truth" i have heard scriptures twisted in an olympic manner to apply to local needs.
there were so many on various sexual activities that i tempted to throw money on the platform!.
i even heard from a reliable brother of a local needs on farting.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? Reasonable readers will see then, that if they have the love of
GodJehovah, they should not shut up their bowels, but let them loose.The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. As true Christians can see by reading this passage, if they should hear someone break wind, they should not tell where it came from, so as not to stumble anyone.
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SOME LINK JEHOVAH WITH JOVE AND OTHER PAGAN GODS!
by badboy insource ; 911encyclopedia/jehovah.
do you hink jehovah has a pagan origin?.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
Done4good, I found that quote very interesting, however it is filled with loaded language; "Zionist", "divine right" "racial suppremacy"...it all seems to lean toward a degradation of Israeli people in general, which makes me curious as to the origin of the quote. Not the person who quoted it here on the board, but the actual speaker or writer who first stated it. Despite finding it interesting, I mistrust anything which seems to so obviously have another agenda, which may have prompted the person to slant things to support their own view or opinion.
I became curious enough to look up some references to the quoted material, and found some other very interesting links that seem to support the information in it:
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Make up: Love it or loathe it?
by Crumpet ini have just gotten around to taking off last nights trowelling and what a relief that is!
i rarely wear make up - maybe once a month, so i probably go over board.
i feel like my skin just suffocated for 24 hrs.. what do you love or loathe about make up?
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
I prefer very all-natural gals. Not only do I not like overdone makeup (a little is ok, concealer or foundation or whatever it's called, and a hint of blush, but not much else), I don't like anything artificial. I'm married now, but back in my single dating days, if I could tell that a woman had fake hair (whether extensions, braids, or whatever) I lost interest immediately. I once turned down a date with a woman who had breast implants as well. I suppose to not be a hypocrite, I should not like fake nails either, but I don't mind them so much...maybe because so many women seem to get them at least once in a while. Whether this is just a reasonable quirk of mine, or a holdover from my upbringing in a high-control religion, I couldn't say with any degree of objectiveness, probably.
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I want a hut and a rock for a washing board. Mrs. Grizzly Adams...
by Sparkplug inso to top off my wonderful set of horrible happenings as of late...my washer was broke.
so after a couple of weeks i put off going down the street and borrowing an unused one from a friends garage.
i was told it was buried and hard to get out, so i took a bit of time tackling the job.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
*chuckle* I sympathize with your pain, I've had days like that...and you're one funny lady. Incidentally, when your dryer is on the fritz, and hanging clothes outside isn't an option, I've found that hanging clothes on hangers beneath the air vents overnight works, if the AC is running. You just stick the hook(s) of the hanger(s) in the grillwork of the vent, if need be you can then hang a lot of other hangers off the first one to dry more clothes with some spacing between them, so the air flows around them all. Most apartments and houses with central air will have 2 vents per room in the ceiling, so you just utilize every vent if you need to do a lot of clothes. Hell, in a pinch I've worn clothes I wanted washed into the shower...
AATW, of the "I leared to improvise, adapt, and overcome in the Marines" class.
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Atheists, Why the Anger?
by XJW4EVR inok, so you deny the existence of a god, or you lack belief in a god.
my question why do you get so angry over a mythical being?
no one gets as upset over the tooth fairy, santa claus or the easter bunny, as i have seen some of the atheists on this board get over the slightest mention of god.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
1) Because of people like Perry and Vinny. Much as Jeff Foxworthy of 'You might be a redneck if" fame has said in his comedy routine: "I hate the fact that everybody thinks southerners are ALL stupid. There ARE smart southerners, we just can't keep the dumbest among us off the tv". There are rational, thinking religious people who I, as an atheist, can have an intellectually stimulating discussion with, where we can agree to disagree. Then there are the other people.
2) Because of personal life experience. I could make a list, but egad, where to start? One example of an experience I had was with a very religious drill instructor in Marine Corps boot camp. In the orientation phase at the beginning of boot camp, he proudly stated that he had an unbroken record of 100% platoon participation in chapel services on Sunday, going back x number of years that he had been an instructor. Not being stupid enough to buck him in front of the whole platoon, I approached him privately to tell him that I would not attend services. I was threatened with court martial (a bluff, he knew he couldn't, but I didn't...yet), given extra duty, and generally became the low man on the totem pole in the platoon due to all this. He made it his mission in life to harass me and assign me extra duties and 'shit details' whenever something came up. On Sundays, he would force me to march with the platoon all the way to the chapel (a valid order I could not disobey), then play headgames with me on the front steps in an attempt to force me to attend, and finally, each week, when I refused, would send me running back on the double to stand guard duty in the empty barracks.
3) Because of misconceptions. Many theists need an education on what an atheist is. I can't count the number of times I've had talks where I revealed to someone that I was atheist, only to have them respond by saying something along the lines of "Oh, but you seemed so nice...how can you worship satan?" By definition, atheism is without theism...without religion...satan is a product of god, without one, the other is just as meaningless. Too many religious people have been indoctrinated to a polarized belief system, "if you are not of the body, you are of the world" or however you wish to put it. I am outside the mold. I refuse and refute your definitions. God and satan are two sides of the same coin, atheists have NO coin.
4) Because of placating and patronizing. By which I mean, these sort of statements: "You're an atheist? It's ok, Jesus loves you anyway" or (see my military experience above) "There's no atheists in foxholes", or "you just haven't seen the light yet, one day you will" or "ooooh...you used to be a JW, no WONDER- you just had a bad experience with religion"...as if, had you only had the RIGHT experience (which of course, usually means attending the church of the one making the statement), all would be smiles and rainbows, you poor silly misquided child, you.
5) Opinion: On this board at least, which has a rather unique set of group dynamics, because of a desire to share...enlightenment...freedom? Not sure how to put it... I will attempt to explain. Most of us here had a bad religious experience, and fled the JWs (or in my case, the Worldwide Church of God/Armstrong). I think many here desire a shared experience of newfound freedom, a sense of relief that it wasn't all true. Having escaped the frying pan, and become atheists in the process, I think many of us look around and feel a need to express that in some way, and share the escape experience with others, only to be dismayed when they see that to the atheist way of thinking, some have escaped the frying pan only to fall into the fire. I think a lot of atheists think that with just one little push, they can make the believer convert to the truth. "They've come halfway, maybe they can make the next intuitive leap." In a sense, many of us are just as guilty of proselytizing as evangelicals.