Posts by Hellrider

29

Norway

by InquiryMan in

in norway, the ombudsman of children s welfare intervened and a lot of fuss were made when it was made clear that jws endorsed corporal punishment in their publications even though it was banned by law.

it was even mentioned in the national news.

the coordinator was even interviewed on tv and the day after it was proven from the wt indexes that he had been lying.... i remember it was very embarrassing.

Hellrider

Oj, en tråd om Norge. Heisann folkens...; o )

1989... I was 15 then, and had just gotten out, so I missed that one. But at least at our KH (Lillehammer), spanking only occured rarely, at least AT the meetings. I know for a fact that some of them were beaten pretty badly at home though. I remember how my grandma used to point out how "fortunate" we were, that we weren`t spanked with belts, right on the naked thighs, which is how she had seen it been done in Australia (to which our family had ties). How very christian, btw, to allow spanking in other parts of the world, where it`s not contrary to the Law...like any kid ever benefitted from spanking.

116

Convince me

by Liza in

i am highly considering becoming a jehovah's witness.

i have been raised in the congregration, but left it when i was a child because my mom left too, but we still retatined the core belifs including the ressurection and the blasphemous pagan influence on mainstream churches.

my mom has recently returned to the congregation, and it has helped her a lot.

Hellrider

Mad:

Mad writes: O Wise HellRider- your ignorant words betray you! You know better- if you really know what "stauros" means, and if you've done ANY research on your OWN about the cross in religion! If she listens to you- she shouldn't bother thinking.

You have absolutely no clue about what you`re talking about. Open any greek-english dictionary, and you will find that "cross" is a side-meaning to "stauros" (unless you are using a jw-publication, of course). You should start by reading this essay, published on this forum:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92381/1.ashx

Mad writes:"Real Theologians" that promulgate the First Lie (Satan) to Eve- You Will NOT Die! :"Real Theologians" that make Christ a liar, saying the dead have never died at all- but have always been resurrected & judged- sent to Heaven, Hellfire, Purgatory or Limbo! Your spouting almost makes me wish in Hellfire- for decievers like you.

Blah, blah, blah.

Well, it isn`t. You`d have to falsify early church history beyond recognition for that to be the case. In fact, this is the biggest lie of them all, promoted by the Watchtower.
Mad writes: He MUST be right; Christ wore a Pointy Hat, his Apostles were really called Reverends, and were paid to preach in fancy buildings! HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO WRONG????

Same as above. You could start by reading what the early church fathers themselves wrote (which you, judging from your blatant ignorance still haven`t done), here:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/

Mad: If you continue getting all your information from Awake magazine, you will stay a retard all your life. But you`re on this forum, and that means that you can read. So you can start by reading the above mentioned articles and publications. Good luck.

116

Convince me

by Liza in

i am highly considering becoming a jehovah's witness.

i have been raised in the congregration, but left it when i was a child because my mom left too, but we still retatined the core belifs including the ressurection and the blasphemous pagan influence on mainstream churches.

my mom has recently returned to the congregation, and it has helped her a lot.

Hellrider

Liza:

-So what if C.T Russel was a freemason and dabbled in the occult? Studying the bible may have made him change his ways.

Russell was never a freemason. He may have "dabbled in the occult", I don`t care, but IF he did, then YOU should care. The occult is the same as demonizm and satanism, within your beliefs. And if the founder of your religion (because that is what Russell was !!) "dabbled in the occult", I would be very concerned, as it is your religions standards (and his) to NOT do this.

Jehovah's Witnessses used to use the cross as a symbol, and celebrate holidays and birthdays. But upon discovering that holidays and birthdays originated as pagan celebrations to honor certain false dieties have stopped.

What is "pagan"? All traditions are originally "pagan", including wedding rings. But Jehovahs Witnesses use wedding rings, don`t they? But: Where in the Bible does it say to "abstain from all things pagan"? And if it says so, anywhere, what did the jews and early christians consider pagan? The fact is, that the early christians used SYMBOLS in their worship, including both the cross, the fish and the lamb. The cross is as old as christianity itself. The "pole" which you believe that Christ was killed on, is no less pagan than the cross. The word "stavros" used in the greek text, doesn not just mean "pole", it also means "cross", in all its various shapes. The Jehovahs Witnesses will tell you that this is untrue, that the christians of the 1st century didn`t use symbols in thier worship, and that the cross is a later invention. They are wrong, and all historians in the world will tell you so, if you ask them. The majority of Watchtower-doctrine is based on fasifications of history.

The cross is also a pagan derived symbol, and so is the "Holy" Trinity which can be traced from ancient Egyptian and Chinese cults

The same goes for the Trinity, btw. It is as old as christianity itself. The Watchtower will tell you that it didn`t appear until the great "apostasy" of the 4th century. They are wrong, lying, or both. It is a historical fact that the Trinity, although not stated as explicitly as in the declaration of the Church meeting in Nicea in 325, existed in the 2n century. And in the 1st, jesus Christ was also worshipped as GOD! Like it or not.

If people are going to go to heaven and hell when they die, how come even mainstream church bibles always speak of a ressurection too?

Because they have studied the Bible thoroughly, and arrived at this conclusion. The "going to heaven "-part is clearly a part of the Bible, as the "preliminary" ressurection (the immortality of the soul, resting in heaven, awaiting the final judgement and earthly ressurection). This can be clearly found in particular in Pauls letter. The catholic and protestant church has real theologians...the Watchtower has not.

-Jehovah's Witnesses always quote the Bible to back of their belifs.

Misquote, yes.

The congregation is supposed to be based off the the pre-Catholic Christians.

Well, it isn`t. You`d have to falsify early church history beyond recognition for that to be the case. In fact, this is the biggest lie of them all, promoted by the Watchtower.

Much of Jehovah's morals can have secular benifits, for they are his wisdom. For example, it has been discovered that condoms aren't very effective when it comes to AIDS.

You don`t have to be a JW to abstain from sex. Anyone can do that.

Even my Catholic relatives recognize that the last days are comming, since a day for God can be a very long time for humans, it may be centuries till the New System comes. The signs are there, the feet of clay and iron that is the last empire. That last empire being the US, and Republicans being iron and Democrats being clay. The blashpemous unity of church and state being represented by the whore that rides the wild beast. And a grea tribulation that may come, and think that maybe the Bush Administration may have something to do with it. Also that in 1914 WWI started, and an event in the middle east there was triggered whose effects still occur today with the constant chaos of the middle east.

This is some of the worst BS I have ever heard. I`m sorry, but you seem to gullible to be rescued from the Witnesses. Good luck with your baptism.

59

"You'll never even get to finish school in this System of Things....."

by WingCommander in

this statement was often echeod to me during my formative years.

i remember my very first day of elementary school (stateside) at the age of 4. my parents were flustered because they couldn't believe they actually had to start their only child into public school to begin with; after all, the end was right around the corner!

this was 1984, the year the first apple mac was introduced, 80's music was loud and in your face, the delorean was cool, and miami vice was just in production.

Hellrider

I had it like that too. Alwyays the Armageddon-crap. I would like to start another thread one day: How many of you raised in "the truth" have this same basic pessimism in your personalities, like me? How many of us have this? This inner, unspoken feeling that somehow, someway, everything is going down the drain. How many of us are hypocondriacs? How many expect to have a short life-span? How many have anxiety and/or depression? I can only imagine... I hate the Watchtower. (ahh, it felt good to vent).

13

What did 539 AD mean to Russell?

by glenster in

i've been writing down russell's chronology (no, i don't believe a word of it).

he had 539 ad to 1799 ad as 1,260 "days.

" 1799 ad (the pope had to go to napolean; the ability for the papacy to persecute was waning) to 1914 ad was the end times period.

Hellrider

I`ve been trying to figure that out myself. Are you sure about that, IP_SEC? Was that the whole thing about the pyramid inch? I thought it had something to do with an "important event" in church history, but I looked it up, and found nothing. The only thing marked under 539 in church history, is "Papal Temporal power". I have no idea what that means, or if it`s what Russell was referring to.

http://www.heraldmag.org/2006_history/06history_13.htm

10

moral decay

by Borgia in

i was just skimming through the awake magazines we got on last sunday.

the cover story is about morals.

the thing that immediately caught my eye was the explicite standpoint that the morals of this world went into decay in 1914. .

Hellrider

They`re just lying again... Most history books aren`t to focused on the history of morality, but there has been written some. One thing that is for certain, is that in all centuries preceding the 20th, most guys went to see prostitutes on a regular basis. Normal sex before marriage was unheard of, so guys had to stick to brothels. That`s why there were a lot of them. Brothels, that is. And prostitutes.

Just in London alone, in the 19th century, these statistics may be of interest:

In 1857, William Acton published Prostitution, considered in its Moral, Social and Sanitary Aspects. He concluded that there were around 80 000 prostitutes in London... In the Metropolitan police district alone, there were 2825 brothels, and 8.600 prostitutes.

I don`t know how many people lived in London in 1857, but today there are about 8 million people in London. That number can`t have been more than 1/4 in 1857. So let`s say 2 million people lived in London in 1857. One million were women. About 350 000 of those were between the age of 20 and 50. In other words, one in four women between the age of 20 and 50 in London, were prostitutes.

So much for moral decay.

44

Today's Text is Scriptural Blasphemy

by gumby in

hey gang, this morning as i was making some coffee i saw the "text book" lying there and decided i'd read todays text as i never do, just to see what it had to say.. it was taken from john 15:12 which says..... " this is my commandment, that you love one another just as i have loved you".. anyways, it goes on to say what jesus told his diciples who asked him which was the greatest of all the commandments and jesus answered them that "you must love god with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself".

then it went on to ask if this law was also important to christians today and the comment was.... ( and heres the kicker) "absolutely, the law of christ involves a heartfelt love of god and includes a new command.....christians are to have a self sacrificing love for one another".. so rather than say christians are to love your fellowman, they twist the scripture and say christians are to love other christians.......and we all know by that statement they mean other jehovah's witnesses since they hold no regard for christians of this world.

yes, once again they play mind tricks on the publishers and tell them to love each other...rather than your fellowman and people of this world in general as was the case in the illustration jesus himself gave with the good samaritan.. it's no wonder jehovah's witnesses are despised by many in this world with their self rightous attitudes and beliefs regarding their fellowman that is induced in them by a few old men from brooklyn new york.. i hope your reading this wtbts spies, i really do.

Hellrider

Truth-giver:

You are sidestepping the issue. The question is: Since the Biblical text says "love thy neighbour!", why then does the WTS in its publication choose to interpret this as meaning: "Christians are to love their fellow christians" (and only jw`s are considered the true christians by the WTS, and actually, the fact is that only the annointed is to be considered true christians, and not the "other sheep", but let`s not go that deep into it). Why does the WTS choose to interpret it this way, when the meaning of the Biblical text does nothing to exclude non-christians from the love one is supposed to share? The text simply says: Thy neighbour! Not "thine neighbours who happen to share in your particular interpretation of the Bible". No! It simply says "thy neighbour". Now that I have clarified this for you, please explain to us again why the WTS is right to interpret this scripture as "love between christians". Please.

As for your "going door to door"-comment, other christian denominations are growing much more rapidly by spreading their message via other, more modern means of communication. TV-evangelists, for example, are responsible for attracting tens of times (if not hundreds) as many new members every year as the door-knocking of the JWs ever did. So please, don`t bring in the door-knocking as an example of your love, because we all know that the ministry-work is dreaded among most jws, and they don`t put too much "love" into it when they drag their worn-out shoes from door to door on Saturday mornings...They do it because they are obligated to do it...(to remain in "good standing", and keep the ticket to paradise), nothing more. And besides, this whole point is just a way to sidestep the issue above. So now, if you please: An explanation.

77

The Question Non-Jws hate to hear! (Unless they're athiests)

by Mad in

did jesus have a god that he worshipped?

Hellrider

dadroz:

Anyway, the last book of the New Testament, Revelation, was written in about A.D. 90 by John, of course when he was VERY old, just before he died. As for the hundreds of other writings that people have labeled gospels and assigned to Philip, Thomas, Judas (curious that he was able to write after he hanged himself), you're right, they're a bunch of bull. 1) The last book of the NT, Revelation, was not the last of the books to be written. Both several of Pauls letters, as well as the Gospel of John, are younger than Revelation.

2) Paul wrote some of the letters (ascribed to him), himself. Other, later letters were written by others.

3) The John that wrote Revelation is not the same as the John that used to hang around with Jesus.

No serious historians, Christian or otherwise, have any reason to doubt that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by who they're associated with or at least an amanuensis (scribe/secretary) who accompanied them. As far as we know, Luke wrote Acts, Paul wrote to the Roman church, the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Perhaps Paul, but many scholars say Luke, wrote the letter to the Hebrews, James wrote James, Peter wrote his two letters, John wrote three letters, Jude wrote Jude, and John wrote Revelation.

4) You claim that "no serious historian, Christian or otherwise, have any reason to doubt that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written by who they`re associated with or at least an amanuensis who accompanied them". But on the other hand, this is exactly what all (aside from some theologically un-trained Bible fundamentalists) serious historian, christians and otherwise, claim to be the case, regarding most of the texts. The Gospel of John, for example, was a product of the Johannine community. No serious historians believe that it was written by John, or even some who knew John personally. It came from that community, no more, no less. The same is the case with other texts, in particular several of Pauls letters, which were written long after his death (and weren`t really "his" letters, but they came from the christian community of Paul, and was in coherence with his thought and views).

Of course anything after A.D. 90 would be ridiculous to associate with disciples of Christ, which is a huge factor in the fact that any other books were rejected by most churches.

5) The time in which the texts were written, hasn`t got much to with whether they were dismissed or not. The texts that were dismissed, were dismissed because they adhered to a different school of thought/christianity than the one that eventually were victorius in this "battle" over christianity. The gnostics lost, that`s all.

If you can find the records of votes for the canon, very few churches voted against Matthew to Revelation, and very few voted for any other writings.

6) The Revelation of John just barely made it into the canon at Nicea.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

77

The Question Non-Jws hate to hear! (Unless they're athiests)

by Mad in

did jesus have a god that he worshipped?

Hellrider

Yes, the one that he claimed to be "one" with, and the one he claimed that had handed over all the authority of the heavens to him... if that answers your question...

(btw, I`m atheist too, but even if I wasn`t, I wouldn`t hate that question... )

34

Horrible, but didn't make the News

by ICBehindtheCurtain in

hi all, i found this on the net, this is really sad.

i've finally decided that to get the real news about what goes on in the world you have to go outside of the information controlled us news networks.

humiliation and child abuse at israeli checkpointsstrip-searching childrenby alison weir.

Hellrider

Here in Europe, this was on the news. It`s not so wrong to raise a critical voice against Israel here...on the contrary. Sometimes it looks to be taking on a new form of anti-semittism here, this time from the socialist side. The fact is that the jews and the arabs are never going to stop hating eachother. The sooner they have a two-state-solution in place, the better.