Posts by Hellrider

129

Many many books from library on 586/87

by ithinkisee in

i have listed all the books i found at the library that mention 586/87 as the fall of jerusalem.

i was also able to link to all of them (except the first one listed) on amazon.com!

many are out of print or unavailable as new books but you can buy almost all of them used on amazon.com ... some are only $10-12 each!

Hellrider

Jeffro, there is no point in trying to explain him this stuff, he`s got a thick JW-skull. His "celebrated WT-scholars" have determined the chronology from this very minute back to the day Adam walked around buttnaked in Paradise. Oh well, there is of course the "we don`t know how long Adam was alone in Paradise"-apology, but never mind that, like the WTs of 1975 said "it could only be a matter of weeks, months at the highest"...cause naming a few thousand species couldn`t take very long, of course.

Hey, "celebrated WT-Scholar":

Your theory about the calendrical method employed by Daniel and Jeremiah is simply just that and is simply inadequate in solving the problem of Jeremiah 25:1 and Daniel 1:1.

Look, there is no problem, neither in Jeremiah and Daniel (concerning chronology) or in the "70 years of desolation"!! There is a problem with the "70 years of desolation" for JW-doctrine, because you have based your entire religion, for the last 75 years or so, on the 1914-doctrine. Because of 1914, it is essential for you that 607 must be the date of the destruction of Jerusalem, the destruction of the temple, and the desolation of the land. Because the destruction of the temple would mean that "ancient Israel" had been destroyed, which would, in your insane mythology, be followed by restoration of the True Faith/ "the new Israel" and the , and the "beginning of the end times" after 3 1/2 x 2 Daniel-times, 2520 years. This is why it is so important for you, and your religious doctrine to set the date for the destruction to 607. Therefore it is essential for you to engage in "solving the problem of the 70 years". To the rest of the world, this is not problematic at all!

... Jeremiah 25:11: "And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."

Jeremiah says nothing about total destruction of Jerusalem or the Temple, it claims that "these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years".

Are you an apostate? Have you been or are you now a Witness? If the latter answer is a negative then please accept my apologies and if the answer is positive then be like Alan F and take it on the chin for Alan is the master of insults and derogation

This must be the most insulting, repulsive comment I have heard in many months. This is JW-talk, and here is the translation into normal people-talk: "Have you ever been, or are you nowa witness? If no, then it`s ok for us to discuss these things. If you are an apostate, then you are a renegade, a deserter, and you are fair game for persecution, insults and shunning, because the holy and mighty WTb&ts has sentenced you to death in the name of almighty Jehovah (well, Jehovah and WTS is esentially the same anyway). You are nothing, the dirt beneath my shoes, a walking dead man God will kill in Armageddon".

Well, guess what, "celebrated JW-Scholar": 98% of the people on this forum are apostates! If you don`t like talking to us, cause we`re such trash, then do me a favor and sod off! Go invent the missing 20 years in your "momentous date of 607" somewhere else!

"Momentous date of 607". "Celebrated JW-scholars". Ha ha, give me a break! You know, term-dropping just seems so much more retarded when used by someone who clearly hasn`t got a clue as to what he`s talking about. Or where his own ass is placed, for that matter.

33

Scholar, I would like to know more about you.

by jwfacts in

hi scholar, .

i asked you a couple of questions but received no reply.

i actually was asking out of sincerity as i would like to know the answer.

Hellrider

Well, he`s definitely a real Witnoid, if anyone was in doubt about that. In his reply to Jeffro in the "many many books on 586/587"-thread, he says:

Are you an apostate? Have you been or are you now a Witness? If the latter answer is a negative then please accept my apologies and if the answer is positive then be like Alan F and take it on the chin for Alan is the master of insults and derogation.

...only a hardcore Witnoid (you know, brainwashed beyond hope) could state something like that. The translation of this statement into normal people-talk, is "if you`re not, and have never been a witness, it`s ok. If you have been, you are pr. definition an apostate, and thereby I sentence you to death, and you are also fair game for ridicule, persecution, shunning, etc, cause both Jehovah-god and the almighty WTb&ts (which is two of the same) has decided you are worth nothing more than the dirt under our shoes. You are a walking dead man!"

So I`m sure "Scholar" (what a cheapening of that expression) is a very faithful Witnoid. But he`s probably even to hardcore to stomach for the rest of his congregation. He`s probably one of those old geezers that sit in the back with that fake smile on his face, looking over his private little Kingdom, making sure all the children (who are, to his great joy and pleasure) scared shitless of him (I used to be one of these kids), sit quietly.

Old fu##s like these, give me violent thoughts to this day.

129

Many many books from library on 586/87

by ithinkisee in

i have listed all the books i found at the library that mention 586/87 as the fall of jerusalem.

i was also able to link to all of them (except the first one listed) on amazon.com!

many are out of print or unavailable as new books but you can buy almost all of them used on amazon.com ... some are only $10-12 each!

Hellrider

Celebrated WT scholars

Hey, Scholar, just a couple of things:

1) WHO are these "celebrated WT scholars" you keep referring to? What are their names and academic background? Because the word "scholar" in normal-talk (unlike JW-talk) means someone with an academic background! You know, a person that has studied at a university! It couldn`t be the same kind of "academic" background that the guys on the New World Translation-committe had, could it? Which is being "selftaught" in hebrew and greek? Yes, that`s right, this is the kind of "academic" background the WT has. The following is an example of what "Scholar" means by "WT-scholars": Of the 6 people on the NWT-commite (all GB-members, if memory serves me right), only 2 had any knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages. Fredrick Frantz was chairman of the committee and had studied Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati without graduating (two years, but had only attended class 23 times), and was only self-taught in Hebrew. WHen asked, under oath in a court of law, to translate a passage of Genesis into hebrew, he was unable to do so. Also, the study of modern and classical greek doesn`t qualify anyone in Biblical translation anyway, because this is not the greek of the Bible. The other member was George Gangas, who was born greek, and thus spoke modern greek fluently. He had no knowledge of neither classical greek, hebrew, or the particular kind of greek of the Bible. The other four members had no training in the biblical languages whatsoever. THIS is the kind of "scholarship" they have at the WTBTS. It`s absolutely amasing that they couldn`t even find any people in their religion more qalified to do the translation-work, as they have 5 million members. But then again, the NWT isn`t really a translation, it`s just a tampering, a changing of certain verses, to make them fit in with JW-doctrine. Yup, these guys are some real "scholars".

2) You constantly refer to the "Jonsson hypothesis".First of all, there is no Jonsson hypothesis. There is a Jonsson, who keeps trying to get the message out there that the WTb&ts` view on 607 is NOT the view of 99.99 % of the academics of the world (the 0.01 % being Rolf Furuli, a member of the JWs). Jonsson has no hypothesis, he`s merely trying to educate people on this issue, so they won`t fall for WT-propaganda. What he`s doing is providing information from the academic world to anyone looking for this information. And the only ones who actually cares about such an obscure and (to the rest of the world) uninteresting issue, just happens to be ex-jws, apostates, and people that are in the process of breaking out of your cult, and are looking for information. That`s why you`re so upset!! There`s a reason why you keep referring to it as the "Jonsson hypothesis". By calling it a "hypothesis", you try to discredit it, making it sound (probably more in your own ears than in the rest of the worlds, as you deep down know how weak your position is) like just that, a hypothesis, a theory that is just one amongst many others, a theory that is "in the minority". By using this expression, you`re thinking that you might persuade some of the "doubters" that the 587-theory is just one of many theories, that this theory is something just a minority of academics believe. WRONG! The entire academic world (with the exception of the JW Rolf Furuli, who isn`t even a historian, but a linguist) agree on the 586/587-date.

By the way, you sure are an annoying piece of work. Why are you here anyway? Oh, I know: You`re here to spew your propaganda, trying to persuade doubters to get their butts back to KH,and not have anything to do with "apostates": You`re probably writing down your hours on this board as field service-time. Damn hypocrite.

10

Propaganda puff piece-same ole same ole

by DannyHaszard in

'we feel we're doing god's will, preaching the good news to everyone,' doctor says of jehovah's witnesses.

'we feel we're doing god's will, preaching the good news to everyone,' doctor says of jehovah's witnesses.. .

that's how we feel about our message.

Hellrider

Doesn`t really look like persecution and the "banning of all religion" to me...no "when they touch the stone in My Eye..." here, that`s for sure. But then it`s the last gathering of course, people flock to "the Truth" just before the end comes. So it`s a sure sign of "the end" either way. No wonder they`re so eager, ha ha.

49

Called the information desk again about the UN

by skyman in

i have called many times in the past.

this time i was calling for a sister that wanted to know the truth from the society.

the brother from the information desk said they did join but realy they were tricked.

Hellrider

If I were the UN I'd complain about the ugly whore on my back in WTS publications ...

Hm...I think she`s kind of hot, actually.

34

TOP TEN SIGNS THAT YOU ARE AN UNQUESTIONING JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

by nicolaou in

10- you vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god - jehovah.. .

9- you feel insulted and 'dehumanized' when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the biblical claim that we were created from dirt.. .

8- you laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in multidues of demons, angels, cherubs etc.. .

Hellrider

You see no problem in telling your kids, in great detail, about Armageddon, over and over again, that everyone (about 99.99 % of humanity) except JWs are going to be massacred by God in this apocalyptic event. But you think the "worldly people" are so cruel and insensitive to their children, because their refusal to become JWs is a death sentence to their children. Because children "ride on their parents ticket". "They should at least think of their kids". And you see no ethical problem in believing that God is going to kill almost all the other children on the earth.

215

Trinity- True or False

by defd in

i know from going door to door that people are generally divided as to who god is.

what are your thoughts?

is jesus almighty god?

Hellrider

Ok, thanks Cygnus, glad to have that cleared up. LoL, I`m learning a lot more about the Bible and JW-beliefs than I did back then. All I remember was the constant Jehovah this - Jehovah that. Thanks.

215

Trinity- True or False

by defd in

i know from going door to door that people are generally divided as to who god is.

what are your thoughts?

is jesus almighty god?

Hellrider

I see this thread is coming to an end, I just have a couple of things to say:

1) Of course I knew that "the anointed ones" were supposed to rule in heaven under the authoroty of Jesus, who, in turn, would be under his Father Jehovah, but it had actually never crossed my mind that this would put "the annointed" one step above the other angels, in the hierarchy! I had, for some reason, actually never thought about it like that! And if I ever was sure JW-dom was a big hoax, this makes me even more sure. There was "an anointed" in our neighbouring congregation, and he would sometimes visit our congregation. There was this "aura" of mystique around him, he always had this "I know something you don`t"-look on his face. And his eyes were pale blue, cold as a frozen hell. What some saw as "mystique", I instinctively felt was evil. Kids often sense these things, I still believe that to these days, although I`m not otherwise superstitious. If that guy is going to be ruling with Jesus over the angels and all of (surviving) humanity, I wouldn`t want to be around anyway. And it`s so ridicolous, wouldn`t surprise me if this guy too was a janitor or a window-washer, his only joy in life was probably to walk around being on top of the food chain. What a dork.

2) I really see a problem with a couple of the conclusions to this thread, paricularly for JW-ideology. While I`m not so sure about the trinity-theory anymore, after some of the insightful posts on the thread, by JosephMalik, Cygnys and some others, I see a problem for JW-ideology. Remember when you were a dub, how the creation-of-everything-story in Genesis was emphasised much more than the one in the beginning of John? That`s how it was with us, anyway. And if JWs claim that Jesus is Michael the archangel, then they would also have to accept that Jesus/Michael is also the Word in John! And the Word is the one actually creating the world! Still, I have never heard a JW claim that Jesus aka the word aka Michael created the world! It was, according to JWs, Jehovah who created the world! Genesis was studied a lot, but not John! I had NEVER heard that it was Jesus that did it, before I heard it on this forum (however, I was only 17 when I left)! Was this something I should have been supposed to know? DO JWs believe that Jesus/the Word created the world? And actually, I had thought JWs believed that the Word was Gods force, the active force that the rest of Christianity calls "the holy ghost", the last "part" of the trinity! However, John makes perfectly clear (in my view) that the Word is Jesus Christ! If JWs believe he is not, then they are WRONG!

I would also like to see the justification for claiming that Jesus is really Michael the archangel. Where in the Bible is Michael mentioned?

If I thought I was confused before, I know I am confused now...

23

"Some Things To Bear In Mind Regarding Apostates"

by Hellrider in

the books of russel and rutherford can be read online on this website (link provided by blondie, thnx):.

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/csoon.html.

...now, heres the fun part: the website is run by a faithful jw, and his motivation for publishing these books, is that these books can also be read at "apostate" websites.

Hellrider

He he. He`s allready removed it, Tetrapod. He must have realised there`s a heightened apostate activity on his website the last few days. A sure sign the end is near, LoL. I love that paragraph, by the way. If God likes throwing shit upon peoples faces, that`ll explain a whole lot.

215

Trinity- True or False

by defd in

i know from going door to door that people are generally divided as to who god is.

what are your thoughts?

is jesus almighty god?

Hellrider

Right, I have a couple of questions for all you Bible scholars:

John says: " 1:1 In the beginning1 was the Word, and the Word was with God,2 and the Word was fully God.3 1:2 The Word4 was with God in the beginning. 1:3 All things were created5 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created6 that has been created.7 1:4 In him was life,8 and the life was the light of mankind.9 "

My question is: Isn`t there a contradictory statement here? First he says: "in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was fully God". (That the word is Jesus Christ (or later known as Jesus Christ) is pretty clear. Jesus calls himself "the light of mankind" on one occasion, I think it is later in John.) This first verse more than indicates that God and the Word are "in" the same entity, in the beginning the word was with God (it is even mentioned before God), and it was fully God! This would clearly indicate that it was "inseparate" from God, that it was not created!

But then comes "all things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created". This I don`t understand. It seems to be selfcontradictory! Could it be that the "apart from him not one thing was created part" only refers to the Word in earthly form, the Christ? And I have a question for Zen Nudist (and any others that would like to answer): What is the justification for claiming that the Word is Michael the archangel? Because if the Word is Jesus (and all things were created thru him), and Jesus is Michael, then Michael is the Word!! Where in the Bible can I find this? I know that the catholics have a lot of theories about the angels and archangels, but I never learned anything about this stuff in the JWs. And another thing: If the Words/Jesus` real name is Michael, wouldn`t it be more appropriate to just call him that, for the JWs, who believe that this is who he is?