Posts by Hellrider

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

MuaDib:

"The technology of 2006 combined with the mindset of the 1300s, is a very dangerous combination."
True. That's why it's so dangerous to have Bush in power right now.

Oh for the love of Satan, how many times do I have to say that I am NOT a supporter of Bush and his regime! On the contrary, I am well aware of the fact that Bush is one of the idiots that is causing this problem to escalating! And unlike the leftists (who are stopped by strict boundaries of political correct-ism on what can be said, and what can`t) , I am even willing to say that a lot of the problem here lies with the religious right in the U.S. This movement is often referred to as the evangelicals, and they are Zionists! (yes, the conspiracy-theorists` favorite word, they are only taking their theories to far, ending up in anti-semittism). The evangelical movement in the US, tens of millions of people, is the powerbase that brought Bush to power. This movement started out (as a movement with a political agenda) allready back in Jimmy Carters days. Carter flirted with the evangelicals, but once he was in the white house, he turned his back on them. And ever since, this movement has backed republican candidates. Now, this movement is extremely powerful and wealthy, and are lobbying on Capitol Hill. The thing is, a part of the religious beliefs of the evangelicals, is that Jesus second coming will not occur until "the promised land" again is in jewish hands! And then, Jesus will return, all the jews will also become christians (which is what actually makes this group who are the strongest supporters of Israel, deeply anti-semittic, as ironic as it sounds), and you know, we will all be taken up in the rapture and sit on clouds with our harps etc, blah blah blah hallelujah. The jewish organisations, with the moneybacking of some extremely wealthy american jews, are also lobbying. There are some 8 million jews in the U.S., most of which of course do NOT back the Israelis actions on the west bank, but enough of them do, to add to the power of the religious right. This is the powerbase of president Bush! And consequently, Israel can behave in any way they like on the west bank and the Gaza strip. And consequently, Bush can deploy tens of thousands of troops to any middle eastern country, all under the pretense of fighting terrorism (and I am pretty sure Iran will get a taste of the B2-bombers pretty soon).. All of this is contributing to the hate of the muslims towards the west, and it turns more and more muslims into fundamentalists, or at least into people who sympathise with the fundamentalists war against the west. And the danger in that is that so many of the live among us! Of course I realise that the problem isn`t just the religion, it is the religion in combination with politics, and socio-economic circumstances. But guess what: That doesn`t mean that Islam (as in pure Islam) isn`t shit too. Islams very roots are political, it began as a religious-political movement, has always been a religious-political movement, and always will be.

Bush got it all wrong, and so did the british. Terrorism isn`t fought effectively with F-16s and Tomahawk missiles. It is fought by closing down the borders!

WHY do you lefties automatically consider anyone who is critical towards Islam, as a neo-con Bush-lover? All your prejudices about "non-leftists" makes it really fucking boring to discuss anything at all with you. because I always have to defend myself against things I haven`t even said, but which you believe I "have to mean", because I dare speak against you! Basically, discussing with you is like being silenced and choked by all the words you are putting in my mouth. And that fucking sucks, and I hate it.

19

Is there a 3rd option to explain the origin of life?

by nicolaou in

the creation / evolution debate has raged for 150 years with almost everyone coming down on one side or another (although creation has never offered an explanation for the origin of life).

my question is; 'is there another way of explaining the existence of life in the universe'?.

it's tangential and difficult to imagine but can we drag our perceptions away from the well established religious and evolutionary grooves to arrive at something .

Hellrider

About the origin of life, try turning the problem upside down, like this: For a second, tell yourself that "I can ask questions like this because I am allready here". And then stop your line of thought. It`s very liberating. Almost spiritual (for real).

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

Ha ha!

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

Abaddon:

And your assumption it will take 500 years is based on what exactly?

It was not an assumption. I said: "If Islam is going to use as long as christianity did, then we`re going to have to live with this medieval version of Islam...". There is a difference. My point was, again, to stress the urgency.

The Islamic world (to be precise the Arabic/Persian Islamic world, as most other major population groups of Muslims are NOT comparable to the Arabic/Persian Islamic world) will not take nearly as long

And this assumption is based on what exactly? Turkey? Turkey is a whole different matter, it has a long history of strong ties to Europe and Russia (both as an enemy and as an allie, doesn`t matter, the influence is there either way), and cannot be compared to the middle east what so ever. Bringing up Turkey in this matter shows how little you understand about Islam and the middle east. Oh, and by the way, yes, it did get screwed around with like Iran. Actually, Turkey has been screwed around with a whole lot more than Iran, and for several centuries.

Judicial executions using methods that could well leave the victim in agony whilst they asphixiate is a practise of a Christian state

And what has that got to do with anything? Am I American? No, I am not. Have I in this thread, or ever, defended christian fundamentalism? No, never. Am I a christian? No. I have never glorified the U.S. in any way. But still, at least in the United States they dont whipe and stone women for having been raped. They don`t cut off the arms of a 14-yearold kid who stole a bread due to starvation. They don`t stone and hang people for homosexuality, or for having spoken about the "prophet" (piss be upon him) in less than flattering terms. In your own country, the moviemaker Theo van Gogh was attacked and beheaded with a butcher knife on a street in broad daylight, because he had had the audacity to insult precious Islam. You would make excuses for the assailant, I assume, and place the responsibility for that attack on van Gogh himself, for not having "understood Islam"? Yes, the americans should get rid of the death penalty. But they are not nearly as barbaric as moslem nations ruled by the Sharia-law.

Hijacking planes in the name of Allah, "the most merciful"...
Is it any better if it's in the name of the 'Glorious People's Revolution' or 'A million dollars or everyone dies'? Check your history of hijacking, Muslims are a minority group.

Not only is that irrelevant, because we are now discussig current events, but I even think you are wrong. I would like to see some statistics on that. From what I remember, the wave of hijackings in the 80s were also done by moslems, although politically orientated and not fundamentalistic ones (the PLO).

Yeah, sure, there's billions of Muslims, but there are not billions of problem Muslims;

No, there are not billions of muslims in the world. There is a little over one billion. One billion of problem muslims.

Even if terrorists "took out" one or two major cities (which they have thus far failed to do), the end of extremism is inevitable; the West just has to be careful not to make many allies of the extremists by being heavy-handed or dishonest... we are facing a Generation where there will be tens of thousands of victims of terrorism, but not the escalation to Holy War so desired of the real nut-jobs. It will be a train here, a building there, but Western society (and those who want to share in its riches and freedoms) is simply too powerful ; force to derail.

Well, of course, if you think that is ok. Unless you happen to be on that particular train, of course. Of the 200 that died on the trains in the Madrid bombings, how many of them do you think wanted to have muslims in their country in the first place? I bet a pretty low number. The same goes for the London-bombings, at least most surveys show that europeans in general are against immigration (you, sir, are the exception rather than the rule). So basically, all these people died because of the decisions of politicians doing exactly the opposite of the peoples will, doing exactly the opposite of what the people on the trains and in the buses wanted. That is unfair, it is not democratic, and the Europeans won`t put up with it in the long run!

93

In ref. to child abuse

by jw in

.

ok all time to get real.

child abuse is not limited to jw's.. if you truly want to stop child abuse first start with the family , and be honest we all have a relative that is a pedophile.. then protect your family from stranger danger.. don't just isolate to jw's.. expand and truly stop the child abuse world wide.

Hellrider

Hey JW, I suggest you read Lady Lees last post in this thread again!

(LL, that is the most horrible thing I ever heard, what a sick, sick man, in my opinion, men like that should be taken out behind the house, shot and buried in a shallow, unmarked grave. And that goes for the elders who allowed him to continue molesting little girls too! )

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

MuaDib:

It's ironic to see you talk about the "naivete" of the left, Hellrider, when in the same breath you demand that the Islamic world be secularized RIGHT NOW. That's just as naive an idea as any I've ever seen, particularly when you admit yourself that these things take large amounts of time.

...it would only classify me as naive if I actually believed that that would happen...my point was to stress the urgency in this. If Islam is going to use as long as christianity did, then we`re going to have to live with this medieval version of Islam for 500 years more. Chopping of limbs on thieves, and stoning of criminals in the name of Allah. Hijacking planes in the name of Allah, "the most merciful"...My point is: Christianity became secularised at a point in history which was relatively "harmless". That is, 3-400 years ago, one determined bomber couldn`t kill off an entire town. Today, if terrorists got hold of a nuclear weapon, they could wipe out central London in a matter of seconds. The technology of 2006 combined with the mindset of the 1300s, is a very dangerous combination. My point is that there is no time! It doesn`t matter what we wish we had, the point is that there is no time.

The Islamic world will eventually embrace an enlightened, primarily secular world view just as the West has (well, excluding America), but it will take time - probably many generations. Probably we won't see it in our lifetime. But it will happen.

The sh*t is gonna hit the fan long before then, as a result of western politics (in the middle east, one-sided support of Israel, this is truly the key to the entire hatred of the moslem world towards the west) and our naive immigration policies.

93

In ref. to child abuse

by jw in

.

ok all time to get real.

child abuse is not limited to jw's.. if you truly want to stop child abuse first start with the family , and be honest we all have a relative that is a pedophile.. then protect your family from stranger danger.. don't just isolate to jw's.. expand and truly stop the child abuse world wide.

Hellrider

Ok all time to get real. Child abuse is not limited to Jw's.

Of course not, and noone is saying that. What we are saying though, is that the highranking JWs, the WTBTS have systematically been protecting known pedophiles in the congregations on a worldwide scale to keep a pretty facade on their religion. And the practical result is that pedophiles have been allowed to molest pretty freely within this closed community that the JWs have. I know this, as I have seen it myself. A pedophile CO (!!) from our neighbouring congregation wasn`t stopped until he went on to molest children outside the cult. Not until then was he stopped. He was then stripped of his privileges and DFed (although it later became known that he had been doing this for years, and that the elders knew about it). He was later reinstated, did it again (!!), and was DFed a second time.

If you truly want to stop child abuse first start with the family , and be honest we all have a relative that is a pedophile.

I refuse to believe that it is that common. Maybe it is in JW-land, I don`t know, pedophiles tend to be drawn to closed communities, but in the rest of society I truly don`t think it is. Not in every family, at least.

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

Mary:

However, I don't believe it's only a cultural, social and political problem, I believe it's a religious problem simply because their culture and political structure are based so heavily on their religion, or their interpretation of their writings.

We think alike on this. I know its so politically correct to always free the religion of its responsibility, and blame it all on social and economic problems, but hey, why are we all then here on JWD? If no problems are based in the respective religions, what`s then the point of whining about the horrible JW-past most of us have? No,the problem is economic, social, but also, in many cases, religious! The problem is that if you say this about Islam, then you are, per definition, a racist. I`m not sure why this is the case, but it might be because most moslems are brown, or "brownish" or whatever (I`m not sure which words for "brown" that are PC these days, so forgive me if any of these words are racist, I don`t mean to be). Personally, I have no racial issues at all. I would much rather let african non-moslems into our country than white moslems from the Balkans. And I don`t understand why so many americans have a problem with the mexicans coming into their country either, but that`s a whole different issue, i guess. I see it this way: Luckily, christianity was able to develop, and become secularised. It sure took long, though, in my country, we burned the last witch in the 18th century. So 18 centuries of christianity, before it eventually started to cool down in its persecution, ignorance and arrogance. Islam has had 1300 years to evolve, but still, they have a medieval worldview. Christianity had a head start, but for the sake of the safety of our societies, Islam has to become secularised now! Right now! Or to hell with them, they can move back and have Sharia-law and have Jihad in their own countries. Otherwise, we might just experience a new rise of extreme nationalism (with all the uglyness that goes along with that) in Europe in the next 20-30 years, and unfortunately, then it would probably not just be a weeding out of a certain religion, it would probably also be racial. Remember Balkan 10-15 years ago? That could be all over Europe in a couple of decades. All because of the naivity of the left.

75

Atheists Worst Nightmare!

by SickofLies in

i don't know how i ever doubted that intelligent design was correct!

after watching a video involving kirk cameron, i now see the error of my ways, and will be tithing 50% of my income to the church every month out of contrition.. .

you want to know the mighty argument that changed my views, and my life, forever?

Hellrider

LoL, yes, it was funny, especially the banana-part. "It even has a cap on the top", lol. They even had the eye-proof there, the "complexity of the eye", a favored "proof" also among JWs. Funny also that they should bring up Einstein, and their claim that "even Einstein believed in God" shows just how little they know about Einstein. It is true that the often spoke of God, and expressed himself in religious terms, but Einsteins view on God is certainly nowhere near the judeo-christian God. He also denied the belief in an immortal soul, and he separated morality from religion.

About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.

—W. Hermanns, Einstein and the Poet—In Search of the Cosmic Man (Branden Press, Brookline Village, Mass., 1983), p.132, quote from "Jammer", p.123.

65

British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2142403,00.html.

the times april 20, 2006 .

muslim students 'being taught to despise unbelievers as filth'.

Hellrider

This is turning out to be an interesting discussion. The sides are digging in in the trenches, lol. Personally, I am not an extremist in these things, so I`ll just add my (moderate) comments on this:

"Oh yes, Zionists, of course... like the West needed help from Zionists to royally screw-up the Middle East? Consider my eyeballs rolled..."

Yes, the royally screwing-up of the Middle East is something the west is responsible of, but: Zionism was an important part of the early stages of the establishing of the Israeli state. The Balfour declaration was the result of a combined effort by Zionists (yes, actual Zionists, they did exist, even had their own organisation) in the late 19th century (when the movement began) and in the early 20th century. You can read about the Balforu declaration here (and no, it`s not right-wing-webbies, this is common historical knowledge):

http://www.mideastweb.org/mebalfour.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

...the Balfour declaration is an important part of jewish history, as jewish organisations themselves acknowledge:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/baltoc.html

...but I agree, the responsibility for the travesty of establishing the state of Israel, a state which has absolutely no historical justification, must be placed on the shoulders of the western powers. They are the ones that had all the military and political power in this area, and could basically dictate whatever they wanted to. But Zionism did play an important role.