it is pretty common among us humans to have an issue with one of the big two.
we either have a discomfort with them, or just dislike them all together.
personally, i am not real against being around either, but if i had to choose which one i see in a more negative way, it would be spiders.
Heigths...
I took my 3 year old son to the zoo the other day, by the way. We came just in time for the snakes to be fed. We stood there just a meter away from the zoo-guy feeding 3 meter long python-snakes with dead hamsters and rats. My son loved it. I was almost worried there for a second, damn big snakes that was.
i work with a young woman in her mid-thirties that is openly lesbian.
we have been friends for about 10 years when she first started working at the company.
i was crazy about her before she came out as "gay" and i still have a good time working with her.
If she goes into great detail about what she`d like to do with some woman, then you tell her what YOU`D like to do to that same woman...I doub`t she`d like to hear details about sexual activity involving a big, hard penis...
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Thirwitness:
And Barry, this is for you also. A conversation in the first century. It might sound familiar to you. As you read keep in mind that shabuwa means weeks and shaneh means years.Nicodemus: I have found the Messiah. The one prophesied in Daniel.
Pharisee: What? How do you figure that? What prophecy in Daniel?
Nico: You know, the one about the 70 weeks. According to that prophecy there would be 490 years from the going forth of the word....That brings us to now. Jesus appeared just as prophesied. I believe he is the Messiah.
Phar: You must be crazy. There is no where in that prophecy that tells us that it is 490 years. It is 490 days not years, you twit.
Nico: But shouldn't we apply a day for a year as spoken through Moses and Ezekiel?
Phar: Why? There is no where in the text that says to apply a day for a year. If Daniel had meant 70 weeks of years he would have said 70 shabuwa shaneh. He did not say that. He only said 70 shabuwa. You are going beyond what is written.
Nico: But that would mean the Messiah was to appear in only 70 literal weeks after the word to rebuild. That does not seem logical. What Messiah appeared then?
Phar: Now you are getting the point my friend. Either the prophecy pointed to Nehemiah or the prophecy failed. But this Jesus, he could not be the Messiah. You interpret the prophecy incorrectly. Remember in Genesis where Jacob had to work for his wife. It was said that he would work shabuwa shaneh or 7 years. It did not say he would work shabuwa. The shaneh was put in there to show it was 7 years not one week. Daniel would have said shabuwa shaneh if thats what he meant. Do you think the Lord forgot to put the word shaneh in there. LOL. You are so trying to twist the scriptures.
Nico: I will have to disagree with you. I believe that we must apply the day for a year rule or else the prophecy is senseless and unreasonable. Nothing happened just a little over a year after the word to rebuild was sent forth.
Phar: Nicodumass,You are a lying moron. Everything you say is based on what Jesus has told you. Take your senseless drivel back to your god Jesus.
Other Pharisees: That is great. You really showed him. You will teach him to question you. You made mince meat of Nicodemus' stupid arguments.
Excellent. It seems you are beginning to understand. The pharisees here are right, and Nicodumass is wrong. This is no surprise, because the pharisees have understood that the word "MESSIAH" ( masîah) did not mean the same thing in the year 600 BC as it means now, 2600 years later, or even in the first century. It meant "messenger", prophet or annointed, and didn`t necessarily refer to the great messiah that was about to come and be saviour of the jews. I am glad you are now finally beginning to understand, witnoid. It`s so sad to be a nicodumass ones entire life.
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Thirdwitness:
I believe all questions have been answered.; Many of them more than once.
You know that that is a LIE. You have answered almost nothing. When someone directs arguments against your WTS-theories, you just repeat your original post. That is not the same as answering questions. You certainly haven`t answered any of my arguments. You are either extremely arrogant, not very bright, or a combination of the two. Probably the latter. God, you are an annoying little troll, aren`t you.
I ( ThirdWitness ) believe that it is impossible for all the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation to have been fulfilled by the second fall of Jerusalem in 70CE because__________________________________ I did not answer this because it is too simple. I guess I could bring forth the kindergarden class to answer it. It is off topic and I have no interest as I have said in reteaching the basic doctrines of the bible to those who should already know them but have returned to the vomituous teachings of Christendom or the endless philosophies of men.
...Oh, but the "vomitious teachings of christendom" is a part of this, whether you like it or not. It was "vomitious christendom" that established the canon used in the Bible today, including the NWT. It was "vomitious christendom" that spread christianity thruout the world even to the Americas, so that 1800 years AD, some shittly little sect of selfprofessed "annointed" could start the movement now known as "Jehovahs Witnesses". As for the point above: True scholars know that the word "messiah" means something different today than what it meant 2000 years ago. The WTS, in its endless lack of true scholarship or even basic understanding of the hebrew and greek languages, have never understood this. As a consequense, they see everything in the OT as pointing towards the coming of the Messiah (whos name has become synonymious with the term), Jesus Christ. You don`t need to interpret everything in the Bible as pointing towards Jesus Christ, a "spiritual Israel", or something that is to happen 2000 years into the future. Often, there is an immediate fulfillment of the prophecies, and it` s often pretty simple. But of course,this does not fit into the JW-daydream of being the only ones to survive the coming apocalypse, and the daydream of having "the Truth".
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Stevenyc and fjtoth has got it right: Stevenyc is now repeating a point he (and others) has made several times during the thread (which of course Thirdwitnoid has refused to answer). This is exactly what Thirdwitnoid does, without ever being willing to argue points that are made against his "argument". Just repeat, repeat, repeat, and hope that this brainwashing is succesful, the exact same tactic that is used in the WTS-publications. This works on Jehovahs Witnesses, so maybe repeating, repeating, repeating the arguments against their propaganda will also work (as counter-propaganda). It is sad that this is what it takes to deprogram someone. I personally prefer use of the brain, rational thought, rational arguments, etc, but obviously, this does not work on people without a brain. Fjtoth has understood this. Thruout the thread he has posted simple (and funny, lol) points with his cartoons. Great stuff. A simple approach to explain simple mind (not so) simple things. To actually present thoughtful posts with tons of evidence against this witnoid-dork is to cast the pearls for swine.
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
ackack, your argument really doesn't matter. There was a war going on in heaven and one going on down on the earth. I do not know exactly how long the war in heaven lasted and the exact date that Satan was finally cast out. I don't know exactly what was going thru Satan's mind and if he anticipated that Jesus was about to toss him out so he started something on earth. All we know is the Gentile times came to an end in October, 1914 and Jesus as the newly empowered king of God's kingdom began to cast him out at that time. Ever since then the world has steadily gotten worse. Woe for the earth. Your argument is really pointless.
Mmmm, so let me get this straight: First, the disobedient angels rebelled in the days of Noah. They went down to the earth to have hot, steaming demon-sex with the women on earth. What happened after that? Were they let back into heaven (such as they would have to be, for the WTS-theory about 1914 to be correct), or were they incarcarated in Tartarus? According to the Bible, the latter is correct. During his three days of death, Jesus went to visit them in the underworld, according to the Bible. Obviously, the disobedient angels were not let back into heaven (still, the WTS insists that they were). Jesus was tempted on earth by Satan, being offered the kingdoms of the whole world, if he would bow down and worship him. Jesus refused. Was Satan still in heaven? Clearly not. He had allready been condemned after the uprising against God in the days of Noah, and kicked out. The war in heaven happens long, long before Jesus comes to earth! This is clear in the Bible. But still, what does the WTS say? They say that Satan was allowed to hang around in heaven, even after the rebellion in the days of Noah, even after he tempted Jesus in the desert, etc. Not only is this completely inlogical, but there is also absolutely nothing in the Bible that indicates that Satan was allowed to do this. Quite the opposite. The disobedient angels are in Tartarus (hell), not in heaven, and this is where Jesus goes to visit them. Not in heaven.
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Thirdwitnoid promises answers in his post nr.235, answers to the questions raised about why the "day for a year-rule" should be applied to the seven times. Then what the comes up with as an answer, is this:
If a day for a year is not applied then that means that the 7 times lasted from 607 to 600. Did a ruler of God's Kingdom come forth then? Logical reasoning will lead a person to believe that the day for a year rule must apply otherwise the prophecy is meaningless. We have as an example the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel chapter 9. The day for a year rule must apply in Daniel chapter 9 or the prophecy is meaningless and is of no value.
...which is pretty much exactly what he wrote in his initial post (start of thread), the very issue that the "apostates" have raised criticism, points and arguments against. In his reply to all those arguments and questions, what does he do? He simply copy-pastes the same shit one more time! So basically, what he does, is "answer" arguments to his initial "argument" by simply repeating the first "argument"!
Like I have said before, Thirdwitnoid is not here to discuss anything at all. He is here to preach! That is something quite different than what this board was intended for. Preaching on a discussion board (as in repeating ad nauseum/ brainwashing) is, in my opinion, the same as trolling. I realise that the reason why the admins are allowing him to do this, is because of freedom and speech and all. I respect that, but trolling (as in copy-pasting propaganda without being willing to discuss the content of the propaganda), does not fall under the principle of free-speech. Kick him out.
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
ThirdWitnoid said:
Hellrider said one day was as a thousand years. ; I figured everyone saw the illogic of 7 times being 2,520,000 so i didn't comment on that.
Ha ha, oh you so sneaky! This is what I wrote:
Should We Apply the Day for a Year Rule?No. The "day for a year"-rule isn`t even a rule a all. It is used twice in the entire Bible, once in Numbers 14 (the 40 years in the desert), and once in Ezekiel 4. Both the times that this "rule" (which isn`t even a rule) goes into effect, it is explicitly stated that it does. Also, the YEARS of punishment in these two passages, are equivalent to the number of DAYS that Israel were being disobedient to God. So, "a day for a year" is punishment for Israel! This aspect is not there in neither Jeremiah nor Daniel, and there is no mentioning of the "day for a year-rule" at all. Clearly then, to use it, is wrong.
The Bible also says that to God, a thousand years is like a day, and a day like a thousand years. There is no reason why THIS should not be used in conjunction (hope that`s the right word, english is my 2nd language) with the 2520 days. In fact, it would make MORE sense that THIS rule be applied, instead of a year, as the aspect of punishment is not there (as the Bible explicitly states that the 70 years are for Babylon). That would place the end of the world to be 2520000 years into the future from the day these words were written down. Of course, the "Jehovahs witnesses" are not interested in waiting that long. They want it right now, before even one more generation "that saw these events fulfilled" have passed away.
I believe the difference between my post and your summary of my post should be evident to everyone. Again you are back to your old tricks of distorting what people write in their posts and their arguments against you. Also: You claim to be answering arguments and points made! In relation to the points I raised in my first post (see above) and in similar posts by other participants, you simply referred us to the part of your essay with "Should we apply the day for a year rule". Well, the point is that the argument I and others have raised, is that the "day for a year - rule" (which isn`t even really a rule) should NOT be applied, and we have thoroughly explained WHY! And NONE of the reasons why it should NOT be applied, are covered in your "essay" (and I use that term in its widest possible sense). So, you do NOT answer arguments, you just refer them to some crap you have written that does NOT answer the points and arguments we have made. That means you are just here to spread your propaganda, like a witnoid equvalent to Joseph Goebbels trolling about (and I don`t doubt for a second that you are here on the direct command of "highranking" WTS-officials). Frankly, I can`t understand why the admins put up with it. This is a discussion forum! Not a forum for your thorusand-year-Reich-propaganda!
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
When someone actually addresses with substance what I have written I will respond. Addressing everything from Russell to Millerites to the king's list to going to the movies.........shows you have no arguments left.
...and as usual, Thirdwitnoid do NOT respond to points made. He refuses to answer arguments and points that he does NOT have an answer for (such as my post). He just brushes it off like it`s nothing, although we all KNOW that our arguments have killed off his WTS-theories. And posters who post but do not respond to arguments raised and points made, are TROLLLLLLS! So people should just ignore him. The "points" in his post has allready been refuted, and he has come up with no counterarguments. TROLL TROLL TROLL
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Thirdwitness:
Should We Apply the Day for a Year Rule?
No. The "day for a year"-rule isn`t even a rule a all. It is used twice in the entire Bible, once in Numbers 14 (the 40 years in the desert), and once in Ezekiel 4. Both the times that this "rule" (which isn`t even a rule) goes into effect, it is explicitly stated that it does. Also, the YEARS of punishment in these two passages, are equivalent to the number of DAYS that Israel were being disobedient to God. So, "a day for a year" is punishment for Israel! This aspect is not there in neither Jeremiah nor Daniel, and there is no mentioning of the "day for a year-rule" at all. Clearly then, to use it, is wrong.
The Bible also says that to God, a thousand years is like a day, and a day like a thousand years. There is no reason why THIS should not be used in conjunction (hope that`s the right word, english is my 2nd language) with the 2520 days. In fact, it would make MORE sense that THIS rule be applied, instead of a year, as the aspect of punishment is not there (as the Bible explicitly states that the 70 years are for Babylon). That would place the end of the world to be 2520000 years into the future from the day these words were written down. Of course, the "Jehovahs witnesses" are not interested in waiting that long. They want it right now, before even one more generation "that saw these events fulfilled" have passed away.
