BTTT !!!
chasson
JoinedPosts by chasson
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To rado: When the Watchtower fight against France
by chasson inthis discussion is poorly translated in english.
i have lost the different color of text too.. if someone could help me to translate better this article, see the original text in.
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/milstract.html.
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chasson
Ok, i have followed directly the links. This is on the last assembly of this summer.
The first page isn't interesting, it is only witnessing of stupid rank and file who are very happy about this special assembly.
The second page is a sum-up of five point that has been developped in this assembly, the letter asked the rank and file to be very determined to remember this 5 point...
Stupid indoctrination.
Bye
Charles
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chasson
I can't see it too, on what subject are these letters ?
Bye
Charles
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14
To rado: When the Watchtower fight against France
by chasson inthis discussion is poorly translated in english.
i have lost the different color of text too.. if someone could help me to translate better this article, see the original text in.
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/milstract.html.
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chasson
BTTTT !!!
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14
To rado: When the Watchtower fight against France
by chasson inthis discussion is poorly translated in english.
i have lost the different color of text too.. if someone could help me to translate better this article, see the original text in.
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/milstract.html.
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chasson
This discussion is poorly translated in english. I have lost the different color of text too.
If someone could help me to translate better this article, see the original text in
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/MILStract.html
To sum-up, this a line by line's commentary on the November 2000's pamphlet that JW has distributed in France.
You could see in it, that JW has misinformed about the french's About-Picard's law, that they have forgotten several times to payed several taxes in France.
If Rado or Kent want to add it to their site, please correct my english before, perhaps Celia or Outnfree could help you on this ground.
About-Picard’s law: Jehovah's Witnesses, one deceives you.
On the occasion of the last report of the Interministerial Mission of Fight against Sects ( MILS), in February, 2002, I decided to update the article which I had dedicated to the tract of November, 2000 from the Jehovah's Witnesses, I supressed errors of this article from what a Jehovah's Witness told me on the net
In November, 2000, The Jehovah's Witnesses in a tract distributed everywhere in France, title " What take place in France ? Could liberties decline ? " have again make their voices understand. They had already diffused a previous pamphlet, " Frenchman one deceives you ", one year ago of it.
What hide these violent shooting ? We shall study a part of it pamphlet to make an idea.
The Jehovah's Witnesses according to the pamphlet want to make known certain information, let us quote the pamphlet :
" The council of State, by two rulings of June 23, 2000, recognized the Christian worship of the Jehovah's Witnesses "
Unfortunately the article 2 of the law of 1905 on the separation between Churches and the State declares : " The Republic does not recognize, not payed or does not subsidize any worship … " It is so impossible that an institution of the State recognizes some religion, including the majority Churches, at the most the State can recognize to an association the right of some fiscal advantages as long as this one " does not disturb law and order ".
" From January 13, 1993, the council of State had recognized that the Jehovah's Witnesses well exercised a worship. The government Commissioner underlined that these Christians are engaged in religious activities and declared : " There are there, doubtless, all the elements which usually characterize a worship. " "
The Government Commissioner is not the supreme judge of the State’s Council, the judges of the State’s Council could have a different opinion than him, as they showed it in 1985 when they refused to recognize that the association of the French’s Jehovah's Witnesses can take advantage of generosities of the law of 1905 while the the Government Commissioner were in their favour.
On the other hand the State’s Council ruled in 1993 and in June 2000 only on 4 LOCAL congregations which at THEIR LEVEL did not present trouble to the public order, plainly there were no legal oppositions at the level of THESE congregations on the Blood issue, or on the problem of a parallel’s justice to the replubican’s justice as it could be the case in other jehovah witnesses congregations. It is very possible that the Jehovah's Witnesses guard themselves indeed of demanding a tax exemption for all the congregations where this kind of problem could take place. (To see http: // www.multimania.com / palain / pdophili.htm) because it could be refuse to them in this case.
Still today the national association is not recognized as a worship.
Under the intertitle " reasons to be worried "
The pamphlet adds :
" However, in 2000, the cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses continues to be the object of discriminatory measures:
1 / a fiscal repression: The services of the french’s IRS decided to impose on the Jehovah's Witnesses a confiscatory levy at the level of 60 % of their religious offerings. Now, it is not case for the other confessions. "
Here is the version of the report number 1687 of the National Assembly (p. 195) :
" The control of the Association of The Jehovah's Witnesses revealed the existence of a recipe of 250.579.860 francs received under the shape of donations between January 1-st, 1993 and August 31, 1996. According to the general code of taxes, these donations were subjected to the rights of donation calculated at rate applicable to transfers for free among persons not relatives, is 60 %. A reminder of 150 , 3 million francs is resulted from it. The association not having paid these rights in the delays, added to it the interests of delay, is 26,8 million francs, calculated in application of the article 1727 at the rate of 0,75 % by month. Besides, the same association did not give evidence, for a delay of 30 days following a second formal demand, a statement containing the indication of elements to be held for the plate or the liquidation of these rights. As a consequence the rise of 80 % (that is in the sort 120,3 million francs) foreseen in the article 1728.3 of the same code was applied. The total of rights and fines emitted against the Association of The Jehovah's Witnesses so reached 297,4 million francs, sum put in covering on January 18, 1999. "
The decision is lawfull. The association " the Jehovah's Witnesses " is a typical 1901’s association which could not claim to be a typical 1905’s association because it took charge of the printing of books which is not considered by the law as a " religious activity ".
Therefore law applied. It is true that certain religious associations work also under the law of 1901 but had no receivership on the back, what he makes that they are not worried, nevertheless it is a question rather of denouncing laxness or lacks of means of tax authorities rather than of denying law. The Jehovah's Witnesses who claim themselves the champions of the honesty pretend here not to understand that their recovery is legal and prefer to settle them in victim. Jehovah's Witnesses would not like to settle tax because the others are dishonest. You have to notice as well, as the Jehovah's Witnesses, did not answer a demand of statement in spite of a second formal demand,it was worth them supplementary 123 millions and what the fines of delay in spite of delay left by the administration are 23 million francs. The Jehovah's Witnesses’s learders are responsible for more an half of the sum which they owe to tax authorities!!!
" A tax, with heavy fines, is so required in a retroactive way for 1993's in 1996. The whole chargeable to the believers, who live, for the big majority, with modest means. "
We have just seen that " heavy fines " are the consequences of the bad humor of the leaders, but there, we learn that this will be the believers who will mop the stubbornness of their leaders. It is moreover already begun in their churches : An appeal was launched in all the congregations of France to refloat the boxes of the national associations while the leaders do not still have to pay the recovery and while the costs of printing of hundred thousand french’s "Watchtower " and " Kingdow Ministries" are supported now by the English associations. One can wonder if the JW’s leaders would not exploit the vein to pull a little more money of their believers ?
" 2 / disturbing law’s project: "
" In November, 1999, an amendment was examined by the National Assembly aiming to make legal the levy of religious offerings. It was finally removed, but what will it be it tomorrow ? "
This law’s project was on " religious offerings ", so all the religions were concerned including majority religions, moreover this proposition was not accepted. But for which reasons the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses complain about a cancelled law’s project?
" In June, 2000, a legal arsenal aiming, among others, the worship of Jehovah’s witnesses was adopted. It foresees notably the modification of the texts of law to forbid the construction of buildings of worship, without speaking about the creation of new offences which put true problems for their qualification. "
I have not read the same newspaper (Humanity) as the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses (article quoted in reference in the pamphlet of the Jehovah's Witnesses)
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In http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/2000/2000-06/2000-06-22/2000-06-22-038.html, we could read
" prevention
debate remains opened about the perimeter, fixed around the school and hospital’s establishments, where will be forbidden the installation of these sects. What will not mean, moreover, that a mayor can refuse them a licence to build. The text punishes, also, distribution, by these same groups, of messages bound for the youth "
One sees that a mayor can not refuse a licence to build, but from the text of the Humanity one can believe that a movement qualified as "sect" can not settle down wherever, now this limitation is conditioned in the text of law of the National Assembly, the real text which was surely read by the authors of the pamphlet:
In http: // www.assemblee-nationale.fr/2/pdf/ta0546 .htm
Chapitre IV
Capacities limiting installation
or the advertisement of the sectarian groupings
[Division and title new]
(new) Article 6
In a perimeter situated in 200 metres of a hospital, an orphanage, an old people's home, an establishment public or deprived of prevention, cure or care containing hospitalization, of an advice center of prevention raising local services of social hygiene, a community and medical social centre or a maternal, primary or secondary educational establishment, the mayor and, in Paris, the prefect of police can forbid the installation of a moral person, whatever is the legal shape of it or the object, who pursues activities aiming or for effect to create or to exploit psychological or physical dependence of the persons which participate in these activities, when was pronounced repeatedly, against the moral person herself or her leaders of right or actually, definitive penal condemnations for one or other one of malpractices mentioned below :
1 ° Malpractices of voluntary or involuntary infringements on the life or on the physical or psychic integrity of the person, the stake in danger of the person, the infringement on the liberties of the person, the infringement on the dignity of the person, the infringement on the personality, the stake in danger of the minors or the infringements on the possessions foreseen with articles 221-1 - 221-6 in 222-40 , 223-1 in 223-15 , 224-1 in 224-4 , 225-5 in 225-15 , 225-16-4 in 225-16-6 , 225-17 and 225-18, 226-1 in 226-23 , 227-1 in 227-27 , 311-1 in 311-13 , 312-1 in 312-12 , 313-1 in 313-4 , 314-1 in 314-3 and 324-1 in 324-6 of the penal code;
2 ° Malpractices of illegal exercise of the medicine or the pharmacy foreseen with articles L. 376 and L. 517 of the code of the health service;
3 ° Malpractices of misleading advertising, frauds or forgeries foreseen with articles L. 121-6 and L. 213-1 in L. 213-4 of the code of the consumption.
The disregard of a suspension pronounced in application of the capacities of the present article is punished for two years of detention and for 200000 F of fine.
The moral persons can be declared penally responsible, in conditions foreseen by the article 121-2 of the penal code, this malpractice. Punishment incurred by the moral persons is fine, following modalities foreseen by the article 131-38 of the penal code. "
In summary , even the fixation of a perimeter is connected to the fact that the "moral person" (the cult) were several times condemned according to the list of offences quoted in the law. Would The leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses already know that they are reprehensible for offences " of infringements on the life and the physical integrity of others " , " malpractice of illegal exercise of the medicine " , " malpractice of misleading advertising, frauds or forgeries " ?
It is the feeling that gives the reading of their plea !
And the pamphlet to end :
" It goes without saying that such measures can only generate intolerance and division among the Frenchmen, who are known for their affection about the freedom. "
While the Jehovah’s witness does not carry " infringement on the life and on the integrity of others ", that they not " practices illegally medicine ", that they does not "cheat" , nor "falsifies" , there are no problems This pamphlet is regrettably a good example of forgery of what says the law of June 22, 2000! !!
In February, 2002, the MILS has just added an element, on the attitude of the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses in touch with this law:
One can find the report of the MILS, here: http: // lesrapports.ladocfrancaise.gouv.fr/BRP/ 024000086 / 0000.pdf
Here is what is said:
" The Christian’s Union of the Jehovah's Witnesses tried to put legal obstacle to the About-Picard’s law by presenting a request to the European Court of Human Rights. Vainly. Indeed, on November 6, 2001, the European Court declared this request unacceptable. Among called motives, it is not useless to raise the following argumentation:
" this law foresees the dissolution of sectarian movements, but this measure can be pronounced only with judicial way and when certain conditions are gathered, notably when sects or their leaders were the object of definitive penal condemnations for enumerated malpratices and which (the Christian’s Union of the Jehovah's Witnesses) should not normally dread. A lawsuit of intention made for the legislator, worried to settle a problem burning in society, is not the demonstration of probability of a risk incurred by the applicant. Besides, this one would know without contradiction to take advantage of the fact it does not establish a movement dangerous for liberties and in the same time claim that it would be, at least potentially, a victim of the application which will be able to be made by this law.
It follows that the applicant would not know how to claim himself victim in the sense of the article 34 of the Agreement and the set of the request must be declared unacceptable, in application of the article 35 §§ 1,3 and 4 of the Agreement ."
So much energy spent by the Watchtower’s society to thwart a law which punishes only those that were already comdemned leash without voice.
" respectable people
The Jehovah's Witnesses worship God and will continue to make it. By their offerings, they will support construction and maintenance of buildings of their Worship. On a financial plan, the audit’s report of the associations of the Jehovah's Witnesses, realized by the independent Grant Thornton cabinet and public depiction in February, 2000, concluded on a non profit-making and not speculative functioning of their activities. "
There is no personal enrichment in the Jehovah's Witnesses, everything is sacrificed to the idol that is their organization which will take power during the New System for which waiting the Jehovah's Witnesses, fanaticism is not necessarily connected to personal enrichment and to stock-exchange surplus (I had written it one year before the events of World Trade Center!!! L). But when the Jehovah's Witnesses said to their followers that they have no money, the parliamentary’s committee reveals what follows about the french Jehovah’s witnesses association(P. 194) :
" c) The absence of statement of income of the patrimony
The sectarian associations are often holders, one saw it, of financial values which get them incomes. In application of the article 206-5 of the general code of taxes, associations not subjected to the company tax " are subjected tax in reason (…) incomes of movable assets " which they have. Independently of the lucrative character of their activities, all the associations are so taxable in conformance with their financial products.
In spite of the importance of incomes pulled with the financial assets, the Association of Jehovah's Witnesses did not conform, before sound controls, at this disposal. It consequently underwent a reminder of tax of 7,3 million francs for products perceived between September, 1992 and August, 1996. "
It would be interesting to know how much capital was able to generate in 4 years, 7,3 million tax adjustment ? As accidentally moreover, the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses had forgotten to declare this kind of incomes .
In the same vein (P. 155) :
" . Financial immobilizations and transferable securities of investment possessed by the national authorities of the Jehovah's Witnesses reached, on August 31, 1998, 62,9 million francs. The local associations of the same cult would have also proceeded to financial investments which, according to information passed on to the Committee, would have represented about 500 million francs deposited on the network of a single bank. This information does not correspond to the estimations of the national responsibles for the Jehovah’s witnesses organization who declared to the Committee that the asset of the local associations reached a total of 600 million francs, essentially constituted of their real estate investments. "
The pamphlet continues:
" As for the daily life of the Jehovah's Witnesses, a poll realized in 1998 by the FRENCH NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR MARKET RESEARCH AND OPINION POLLS noticed that " sociological data show tendencies very close to those observed on the average of the French people, as well as a high level of social integration "
One shall be able to speak for a long time about this poll made directly at a convention of the Jehovah's Witnesses and questions asked by the pollsters who correspond strangely to questions for which is prepared the rank and file of Jehovah's Witnesses for some years.
" charity incites the Jehovah's Witnesses to help their fellow men of numerous manners. For example, during floods in the Aude, " to Narbonne, to Lézignan-Corbières and to Saint-Laurent-de-la-Salanque, hundred Jehovah's Witnesses mobilized during the weekend to bring their help to the victims of floods ". - Liberation, in November 19, 1999, Gaillac. "
As a general rule the Jehovah's Witnesses help only their coreligionists. (To see for example http: // www.chez.com / tjrecherches / BugVenez.htm) For some years the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses understood the stake in the mediatization and the inconsequence of this limitation. About this kind of help, the Bible declares in Matthieu 6 1-4 :
" Guard yourself of practising justice in front of the people, to be it seen ; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in heavens. When you make charity, do not sound the trumpet in front of you, as make the hypocrites in synagogues and in streets, to be glorified by the people. I say it to you really, they receive their reward. But when you make the charity that your left hand does not know what makes your right-hand, so that your charity makes in secret ; and your Father who sees in the secret will return it to you. "
It seems to me that to speak about his humanitarian’s relief in 12.000.000 copies distributed in streets does not correspond to this advice of Jesus.
" Finally, love for God and fellow man brings them to develop at their fellow man's an affection for spiritual values (Gospel according to Matthiew 22:37-40). As many, they hold in high respect the freedom of conscience and religion and are persuaded that it will continue to be guaranteed in our country. "
If freedom of conscience means not to pay its taxes and not to undergo punishments of the justice when you commits several offences, where do we go? -
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To Hawkaw and madapostate: UN/ONG
by chasson inin a recent discussion, the french's sociologist eric dericquebourg has said that "some religious movement has decided to make known their difficulty to ong associated with th onu.".
he talked about the cult and their freedom of speech.. in a note, he precised that it was the ong, "the friend of the un" which have as president, m. snarnoff, and the meeting took place in march, 2-3, 2000.. have you some information about this meeting ?
were the jehovah's witnesses, here ?.
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chasson
In a recent discussion, the french's sociologist Eric Dericquebourg has said that "some religious movement has decided to make known their difficulty to ONG associated with th ONU."
He talked about the cult and their freedom of speech.
In a note, he precised that it was the ONG, "the friend of the UN" which have as president, M. Snarnoff, and the meeting took place in March, 2-3, 2000.
Have you some information about this meeting ? Were the jehovah's witnesses, here ?
Bye
Charles
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Masonry????
by apostate man ini have been reading some things about free masonry and how some say russell was a mason.
i have been skeptical up to this point but i am now finding more information that says this may be true.. question: .
why in the world would an organization that teaches against idols and flags etc., use a pyramid at the grave of its founder????
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chasson
Apostateman, take a look at:
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/freemason1.htm
http://www.chez.com/tjrecherches/freemason2.htm
http://www.multimania.com/xmd/Pyramide/debuga.htmBye
Charles
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What Is Your Favorite Overlooked Movie?
by gilwarrior inwhat i am talking about a movie that you thought was great, but is mostly forgotten by most people today.. well, my favorite overlooked movie is "a perfect world.
" in it kevin costner is an escaped felon who escapes from prison with another felon.
they then break into a house and kidnap a boy who is a (gasp!
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chasson
Is someone has seen the french's movie: Amélie Poulain ?
Bye
Charles
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Was Adam 'Perfect'?
by cellomould inthat is actually an inference.
read genesis again.
recently, other folks here have mentioned the 'flaming sword' anachronism, the serpent 'eating dust', and the actual statement by god that 'man had become like us, knowing good and bad' (i.e.
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chasson
Oh yes, cellomoud, my favorite subject of discussion.
Instead of being perfect, I think that Adam and Eve were innocent.
If they were rebels why they didnt' try to eat the fruit of the tree of life ? Why Satan has not counselled them to do that ? A very bad plot, isn't it ?
In french, you could read my last discussion with a JW about this subject:
Bye
Charles
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To Rado and others: translator needed
by chasson ini post this in a new topics to answer to rado and to add another things about german's webpage:.
rado: i am planning to add a category with news and background info on jehovah's witnesses from (european) countries.
if you have time, could you write a brief article for watchtowerinformationservice.org about the latest developments in france?
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chasson
Hi anewperson,
I will try to translate some article with an automatic's translator and correct them a little and send them to Rado, if he could find someone to control what is written, well, let's roll (copyright hawkaw)
Bye
Charles