Posts by chester

based on an earlier comment by you, i wanted to just say thank you.. we have benfitted by your sleuthlike abilities to expose some who have attempted to disrupt the site as well.. i am glad to see that you didn't leave the board as you had considered at one time.

chester

Lisa,

I too am glad you have decided to stick around!!!

I have always admired you LDH. You are a beautiful woman not only physically, but emotionally and intellectually.

I agree with everything Reborn2002 has said.

Edited by - chester on 13 August 2002 6:24:1

10

Did The Times Article Make Your Paper?

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

i thought it would be interesting to list all the papers that carried the new york times article.

yesterday, i noted the orange county register (california), someone else the santa barbara news-press (california) and still another the denver post (colorado).

today i came across it in the lexington herald (kentucky).

chester

The Time's article was in the Sunday issue of Cleveland Plain Dealer on the same page with a story about the catholic scandal..

I could not find the internet link though.

23

Hi -New Here

by RandomTask in

i want to share since i'm new here!

i was more or less born into the jw religion and raised as one.

my mom was a pretty strict believer, but she didn't get baptized until i was 9, "surprisingly" my parents got divorced three years later.

chester

Random and Scarlet,

I just want you to know how much I enjoyed reading your post.

I showed it to my wife who is on her way out but does not even know it and she could relate very well to everything you said.

We both could!

Welcome and we hope to hear more from you.

Chester

6

TO: Minimus

by JT in

jw
friends

i have seen a number of post that you have started in the last few weeks addressing or raising many good issues and questions, but do you have your bio on the board.

i would like to know more about you and your exp with the org.

if you don't mind sharing with us your exp i'm sure that many like myself would love to hear it.

chester

Random Task,

Welcome to the board and thanks so much for sharing your story with us.

It is very interesting but I am afraid it will not get the reviews it deserves because of where you posted it.

May I suggest that you repost it in another section of the forum. Personal experiences is a good place to repost it.

Chester

3

before you open that door...REVISED...

by Bona Dea in

i posted this once before but it was incredibly long.

this is the revised version.

it is a flyer that explains a little bit to unsuspecting householders about the beliefs of the jws.

chester

Bona,

I reposted to remove the underlining. I hope you don't mind. Thanks for taking the time to post this information.

**************************************************************************************************************************************************

OKAY!! I posted this once before but it was incredibly long. This is the revised version. It is a flyer that explains a little bit to unsuspecting householders about the beliefs of the JWs. Some things that they most likely would not learn until they were almost ready for baptism...or after...or never.

If you want to copy this, feel free...that is why I've posted it here.

I have been leaving these laying around in stores, Dr's offices, libraries; everywhere I go, I "place" one. In order for this to fit on one sheet of paper (front and back) you will need to take out the double spacing where the rules and beliefs are listed. It's not in that format on my harddrive but for some reason it copied onto here that way and I can't seem to get the extra space out. Ok. Another thing, is you will need to select a pretty small font size; I used Arial font, 8pt size. I also, configured my margins to be left, right: .5 / top, bottom: 1.

It may be hard to read on the monitor but it isn't that bad in print. I hope to do like Mary did and hit the parking lots a couple of evenings a week and leave them on peoples windshields .

And just for the record before I get attacked, I'm not doing this to belittle Jehovah's Witnesses. The flyer is factual...heck, the first website I listed on it at the bottom for reference was

http://www.watchtower.org/ http://www.watchtower.org/ http://www.watchtower.org . The point of this flyer is to make people aware of their beliefs....BEFORE they get lured in and it gets harder and harder to make an informed decision about the things they are being taught.

Let me know whatcha think!

Bona

Things You Should Know Before you Answer that Door

A Brief Statement About the Beliefs and Controversies that surround the Jehovah's Witnesses

Accusations have been made against the Jehovah's Witnesses that are similar to those being brought against the Catholic Church. Plain and simple...they hide pedophiles and discourage victims from seeking help from the public authorities. It has been testified and witnessed to that there is a database which holds the names of over 20,000 accused child molestors within the Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in America, Canada, and Europe alone. This statement was broadcast on Panorama in the UK, which aired this week following Dateline NBCscoverage of the problem a little over a month ago. That number doesn't include the many other countries that Jehovah's Witnesses inhabit. Why, you may ask, would they hide pedophiles and discourage victims from seeking help?

If any of you have ever had the privilege of meeting a Jehovah's Witness then you will know that they proudly boast about the "cleanliness" of their church. They consider their organization, known as the Watchtower Society, to be Jehovah God's Mouthpiece to his people...his people being ONLY the Jehovah's Witnesses. The rest of the world, including the world of Christendom, is, in their own literature, referred to as "lying in the hands of the wicked one." They believe they ALONE are going to survive Armageddon; they ALONE will go to heaven or inherit the earth; they ALONE will gain everlasting life. So, naturally, by claiming to be Jehovah's ONLY visible organization on earth and being the very mouthpiece of God Almighty, they have quite the reputation to protect. That coupled with the fact that they have boasted that they are the ONLY truly clean church. If they allowed children to go to the police and pedophilia was exposed within their ranks, then that would mean one thing....That they are not as clean as they have been claiming to be...And the world would know it. For more information regarding the Pedophile issue within the Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, visit

http://www.silentlambs.org/ http://www.silentlambs.org .

Below, we have summarized a few other rules and beliefs, some of which the Jehovah's Witnesses will not tell you that they adhere to until you are fully indoctrinated and at that point, you won't care how bizarre or outrageous they sound. These "rules" also vary depending on what Country in which you live. If you do not adhere to these rules and beliefs (and not just believe them yourself but also teach it to others) then you will run the risk of being disfellowshiped, which means all ties will be cut between you and the congregation. ALL members of the congregation (including any family that may be members such as your parents, your children, your siblings) will treat you as if you don't exist. They will not even look at you. You will be dead to them. Once you are in, it is very hard to get out. That is one reason for our publishing this and bringing it to your home.

Rules of the Jehovah's Witnesses:

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot celebrate any holidays, with the exception of wedding anniversaries.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot say "God Bless You" when someone sneezes nor can they say "Good luck".

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot give or receive blood.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot grow beards.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot vote or run for public office.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot join the YMCA, Boy or Girl Scouts.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot attend Proms, Class Reunions, Pep Rallies, be involved in sports (such as football, basketball), or be a cheerleader.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot sing any Patriotic, "Christian", Holiday songs.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot attend any other church, and are strongly discouraged from attending any funerals or weddings held in another church.

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot verbally doubt the Watchtower Society about ANYTHING.

Jehovah's Witnesses must go out in the field service and turn in a time sheet each month.

Jehovah's Witnesses must teach you what the Watchtower Society tells them is the truth, regardless of whether they as an individual agree with it or not.

.....This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are too many more to mention.

Things that they believe:

Jesus Christ began to reign invisibly in 1914* (note this date and what exactly was supposed to happen on this date has changed numerous timesl)
Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
Only 144,000 (Jehovahs Witnesses) are going to heaven. The rest (of Jehovahs Witnesses) will have everlasting life on a paradise earth.
There is no hell. All mankind not in heaven or on earth after the resurrection will be annihilated.
We have no souls.
We sleep until we are resurrected.
The Two Witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11:1-14 is referring to when their leaders were inprisoned in 1918 .
The Prophecy of the Locusts and Abaddon in Rev 9:1-11 is referring to them (the locusts) and Jesus Christ is Abaddon.
Jesus did not die on a cross. He died on a stake.
Those who havent heard the "kingdom message" will be resurrected to live on earth, for 1000 years while the Jehovahs Witnesses, who will be the only survivors of the Great Tribulation, will teach them "the truth".
Jesus is not God. He is not to be worshipped. There is no "Trinity."
They liken themselves to Noahs Ark. If you are not a part of them, you will be destroyed at Armageddon.

.....These are just a few of the beliefs, some of which you will be taught right away, others you arent taught until you are ready to be baptized or later.

Things that you definitely will NOT learn upfront:(and again, this is just a few...)

1. That you will never be able to think for yourself again

. If it doesnt "jive" with their Governing Body...then you had better keep it to yourself and this, unfortunately, is not an exaggeration. Below are just a few excerpts from their literature so that you can see how they view any independent thinking:

Watchtower 9-15-1989 Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead

13 In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said: "The rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead." But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in Gods organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us.

Watchtower 1-15-19

83 Exposing the Devils Subtle Designs

20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question Gods way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. 21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by Gods visible organization.

Watchtower 3-15-1969 What Influences Decisions in Your Life?

12 The influence and spirit of this world is to get ahead, to make a name for oneself. Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them "brainwash" you with the Devils propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any "future" this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let Gods Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal. This is a life that offers an everlasting future!

2. That you nor anyone else can gain "accurate knowledge" without THEIR aid. Accurate knowledge being a correct understanding of the bible:

Watchtower 12-1-1990

"Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus ransom, the difference between Gods organization and Satans, nor why God has permitted wickedness."

Watchtower, 10-1-1967

"Thus the Bibleis an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible."

Watchtower 7-1-1973

"Only this organization functions for Jehovahs purpose and to his praise. To it alone Gods Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book."

Watchtower 10-1-1994

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovahs channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave." *For reference: the "faithful and discreet slave" is another name for the Governing Body, who are a group of men who preside over the congregations.

3. That they are False Prophets. In the bible it reads in Deut 18:20-22 (NIV): "20. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. 21. You may say to yourselves, How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD? 22. If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." The Jehovahs Witnesses fit the bill of a false prophet. Ask any witness about it and they will deny that they ever claimed to be prophets but their literature tells a different story:

Watchtower 4-1-1972 They shall know that a Prophet was among them:

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovahs Christian witnesses..."

Awake! 6-8-1986 Would That All Were Prophets!

"You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovahs Witnesses."

Listed below are dates when something was supposed to happen but...well...you know the rest:

1843 : First year prophecied for the return of Christ by William Miller (this is from whom the Jehovahs Witness Movement originated)

1844: Second year prophecied for the return of Christ. No show. Later said to be the year that the "parable of the 10 virgins" was fulfilled.

1873: Nelson H. Barbour (follower of Miller) predicted human history would end this year. Barbour later claims Christ began his "invisible" reign this year.

1874: Barbour revises prediction to autumn of this year. Nothing happens.

1878: Charles Taze Russell (noted founder of the Watchtower Society) and Barbour predict the saints will be resurrected. Another no show. Changes prediction to say they were resurrected "invisibly".

1881: Russell predicts again that the saints will appear. The prediction changes again.

1914: Russell restates a(nother) prediction made by Barbour that this year will mark the "end of the Gentile Times". This date is changed to 1915 then back to 1914. The events surrounding date are changed to the visible return of Christ. When he doesnt show, it is later changed to the beginning of the "invisible" reign of Christ.

1914: The "Great War" (WWI) is predicted to culminate into the battle of Armageddon. Doesnt happen.

1925: Predicted this would be year of the battle of Armageddon and resurrection of the faithful prophets of old. Doesnt happen.

1940: The Watchtower informs the public that Armageddon is only months away. Still doesnt happen

1950s: Still predicting "Armageddon" is coming very soon.

1975: Prediction made that 6,000 years of human history would be finished in 75 and that it was a good bet that Armageddon would come. It didnt!

1980s: Some expect Armageddon in 1984 or 1994 based on the time for 70 or 80 years for a "generation" from 1914 to expire; a small number of WTS publications hint or state outright that "it will all be over" by the year 2000.

1990s: Many JWs quietly expect "the end" by 2000; the WTS keeps up their expectations with general statements of "real soon now".

1995: The WTS changes its teaching on "the generation" but keeps up with the "Real Soon Now" theme.

For more information concerning the Jehovahs Witnesses and the Watchtower Society visit: http://www.watchtower.org/http://www.watchtower.org, http://www.freeminds.org/http://www.freeminds.org, http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com, http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org, http://www.ajwrb.org/index.shtmlhttp://www.ajwrb.org/index.shtml, http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm

This message was brought to you by someone who cares. .

Edited by - Bona Dea on 1 August 2002 20:33:43

8

How Time Flies!

by BeautifulGarbage in

i have been posting on this forum for a year now.

"only" 2000" were registered when i came here back in july 2001 after lurking for a few months.

i was using another name at that time.

chester

Hi Beautiful G

Time sure does fly. I have been posting here since April of 2001 after lurking for a few months.

I too enjoy reading your posts as well as all of the others.

I would like to take this opportunity to mention how things have changed for me since I first came here.

When I first came here my wife had her head totally in the sand and I had to hide the fact that I was coming to this site. That has changed completely in the past six months. She now asks me, "What is happening on the board today?" I have to sign on and find out and tell her. She is as much interested as I am. This is a fascinating place. I tell her that it is better than a soap opera.

She is not into computers so she does not come here and read on her own but she does listen when I read the stories and accounts that are posted here and she reads everything that I print out for her.

Best Regards

Chester

18

Most Dubs Know Its Garbage.........

by ISP in

jw
friends

i have contacts with quite a few dubs....still and can talk freely to a small number.

thats the conclusion that i've come to.

at least ones that have been in it some time.

chester

I have to comment on this thread because I personally know more than just a few dubs who KNOW it is all a lie and yet they continue to stay simply for the social aspects. It is a way of life for them. They don't have a single friend who is not a JW.

What I can't understand is WHY do they continue to try to bring others in?

37

Why do WOMEN remain Believers???

by JT in

jw
friends

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/women.html .

the following is merely my opinion on the issue and while some may disagree and that is their right im sure that there are those who will fully understand what i am talking about- (aint it nice to be able to disagree and not be called wicked smile).

since leaving wt and looking back i have been often wondered and it has.

chester

Yea JT,

What do you think?

(smile)

3

Why did the Tower Change the Watch ?

by deddaisy in

to get to the other side.........i'm actually going to work today, but wanted to post this old, but unusual article for anyone, such as myself, that hasn't seen it.....what was interesting was the claim that "revisions in legal structure" were dictated by the need to keep pace with growth.

why then is bethel, as rumoured, downsizing, unless this growth has declined since this article was written.

sorry i don't have a link......... .

chester

deddaisy,

Thanks for taking the time to post that information. This is the first time I have seen it.

There is so much going on that these threads get lost very fast.