Ingenuous

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Posts by Ingenuous

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  13

  You Don't Have to See Stars and Fireworks (a bit long)

  by truthsetsonefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower, you have taken away our souls, in some cases our lives, and for many a fighting chance at finding true love and happiness.

  the ways can and have filled books.

  here i want to discuss one in particular.

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  Ingenuous

  What an interesting post, TSOF. It's also a good reminder to those of us who've left to be on guard for such unhealthy tendencies in our current relationships (or when some of us eventually have "current relationships" .)
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  5

  Would you risk your life?

  by pratt1 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  innyc yesterday a man saved a strangers lfe by jumping on the train tracks and rolling both himself and the injured man under a small crawl space in the tracks.

  fortunately both escaped harm but at least 2 train cars had rolled over them.. the man had fell on to the tracks after suffering a seizure.. what a heroic act of kindness.. would you have risked your life to save a stranger?.

  is your answer the same answer you would have given if you were still in the borg?.

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  Ingenuous

  If I'd been by myself, no question - yes. But, honestly, if I'd been this man, I would have thought twice unless I knew about that crawlspace ahead of time.

  He had his 4- and 6-year-old daughters with him. A rescue attempt gone wrong would have left them with one less parent and horrible memories of their parent's death. They might have admired his efforts later in life, but I wonder if, given the way children's minds sometimes work, they would have thought their father cared more about a stranger than about leaving them alone. I could also imagine a terrified child crawling onto the tracks trying to follow her father.

  As it stands, the girls have a hero to look up to and it was a great outcome for everyone.
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  87

  QUESTIONS FROM READERS----CHECK THIS OUT!

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  seeing as i have the wt in front of me today, i thought you'd enjoy the questions from readers from the february 15, 2007 article on the evils and pagan origins on toasting or clinking of glasses.

  the article specifically mentions how not everything today that was of pagan origin is necessarily bad, and sites "wedding rings" as being of pagan origin, but it's not viewed like that now.

  then, incredibly, they go on and say that while toasting might not be considered a religious practice today, there's "good reason" for christians to avoid it------without giving any valid reason why other than: do as we say:.

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  Ingenuous

  Uh-Oh - Time to ban handshakes, too:

  Mithras was worshipped as guardian of arms, and patron of soldiers and armies. The handshake was developed by those who worshipped him as a token of friendship and as a gesture to show that you were unarmed. When Mithras later became the Roman god of contracts, the handshake gesture was imported throughout the Mediterranean and Europe by Roman soldiers.
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  87

  QUESTIONS FROM READERS----CHECK THIS OUT!

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  seeing as i have the wt in front of me today, i thought you'd enjoy the questions from readers from the february 15, 2007 article on the evils and pagan origins on toasting or clinking of glasses.

  the article specifically mentions how not everything today that was of pagan origin is necessarily bad, and sites "wedding rings" as being of pagan origin, but it's not viewed like that now.

  then, incredibly, they go on and say that while toasting might not be considered a religious practice today, there's "good reason" for christians to avoid it------without giving any valid reason why other than: do as we say:.

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  Ingenuous

  Is it just me - or did they have to toast glasses to take the picture that goes along with the article??? Or were they extra carefull to quietly slide the glasses next to each other so they only looked like they were toasting?
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  184

  UPDATE!: THEY ALL ADMITTED EGGING US -Elders now know, heads are rolling!!

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh.... how the saga goes on!!

  i swear we could write a novel about our life exiting the watchtower!!

  ok..many of you read what happened..our house was egged and so was my sisters car that was parked here, and "frosty" was attacked!!

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  Ingenuous

  seven006: If the story does come out (and I think it will and should) the fact that LL and her husband made the offer to keep her thoughts within it’s own environment of her on going situation, and it was "turned down" will give the age old "judge for yourself" thought people have when a "no comment" answer is given in one of those investigative, whistle blower, shows so many see on TV, like 60 minutes, Dateline or what ever. The viewers mind instantly says "guilty, they are trying to hide something"

  This type of "offer" could also be viewed by the JWs as "blackmail". The likely resulting rumor would be something to the tune of, "Look at those awful apostates. They tried to blackmail the elders by threatening to take the brothers to court if they didn't let them spread their spiritual poison at the Kingdom Hall! See what happens when you leave Jehovah? Aren't the elders wonderful for protecting us? Maybe Jehovah was using the incident to teach them a lesson - they should have known better than to be celebrating Christmas anyway." Not to mention that the congregation members could get aggressive - whether verbally at this hosted "meeting" or in more informal ways which involve more property damage and intimidation "offline".

  Lady Liberty: Mind you we felt he was sincere...

  I'm sure he was... sincerely sorry he got caught, sincerely unhappy with standing on your porch, sincerely ticked-off that he was impelled to make the appearance of an apology. If he had truly been sincere, his conscience would have moved him to come forward sooner and to offer restitution for any damage out of his own pocket.

  Qcmbr: Of course you could show the better example and teach by forgiving....
  

  Lashing out - even while justified will not heal your hurt - revenge however leaglly correct never ever ends well and the corrective effects of punishment here will not teach a lesson greater than their obvious humiliation has already done. ..

  This "better example" would only be an "example" if (1) a number of people knew about the incident and (2) those people knew what Lady Liberty's seeming inaction meant, and (3) they could appreciate that behavior. Likely even if the entire circuit knew, they could not appreciate the depth of hurt of this action and what "forgiveness" would really mean. (After all, she's "only" an "apostate" - many JWs seem to think "apostates" have no real feelings.)

  Besides, "revenge" [1: to avenge usually by retaliating in kind or degree - 2: to inflict injury in return for] doesn't fit the act of reporting a wrong on behalf of "justice" [1 a: the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments c: the administration of law; especially: the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity]

  The advocacy of "forgiveness" in this case seems a euphemism for "letting it slide."
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  30

  How did your family react to your decision over time?

  by mavie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm still somewhat hopeful my family will one day 'see the light'.

  in your experience, did any of your family members finally understand your reason for leaving and communicate with you as a family member and not an apostate?.

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  Ingenuous

  I left in '05. When I first started sharing my doubts and disagreements, my father made it clear that he was eager to find a reason to report me to the elders and that he and my mother would drop me like I never existed should I be declared "apostate". Shortly afterward, we had what I thought would be an honest, open conversation and turned into them pretty much emotionally disembowling me. (Strange that the memory has gotten more painful over time.) They seemed satisfied after that incident (it's not totally their fault - I let it happen), and they started leaving the religion issue alone.

  After a couple momentous events in our family life, they currently appear to be in full-blown denial, but I don't trust them anymore. I've limited my contact with them to once every couple of weeks and I stay away from the topic of religion. I'm trying to get it down to once a month.

  A part of me wishes they'd make up their minds if I'm worth anything to them or not and, if not, get out of my life for good. Even occassional contact is stressful and I'm starting to believe I deserve better.
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  11

  We all have spirit ~ spiritual guides??

  by Cabin in the woods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am not certain that this is the right area to put this topic but if not please feel free to put it in a better spot.

  last night i was talking on the phone to a friend that i had made on a different forum.

  she and i were talking about her rrecently meeting mr...could be .. right.

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  Ingenuous

  It's an interesting thought. However, even if they exist, I have no interest in contacting them. How am I supposed to know for certain "who" I'm talking to and can trust?

  I read one person's "experience" with spirit guides and spirits lying. She said that some lie, but it's "usually" for a good reason. I don't trust people I can see who lie, so the idea of interacting with "unverifiable" spirits doesn't appeal to me.
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  46

  Knorr on 1914: "I don't know." - Mouthy Alert!

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dear mouthy and other denounced ones,.

  you may find this double standard $%^@#@*&!

  "in 1975, knorr made a remarkable and candid statement to the governing body, which confirmed his growing disillusionment until his death two years later: ["]'"there are some things i know --- i know that jehovah is god, that christ jesus is his son, that he gave his life as a ransom for us, that there is a resurrection.

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  Ingenuous

  Does anyone remember what killed the little monkey in "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? BAD DATES!

  LOL!
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  20

  I was robbed because I don't serve Jehovah...Yeah Right!

  by LynnTink in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  once again i am shocked.

  you would think i would be usted to it by now.

  wait til you hear this one.

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  Ingenuous

  So sorry. I'll probably hear something similar from my parents one of these days. It's not fair, dealing with your material loss and having to be the adult in the relationship with your mother.
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  32

  Toasting is wrong because.........

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so why, according to the feb 15th watchtower is toasting wrong?.

  apparantly:.

  'toasting today may not be viewed by many as a religious gesture.

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  Ingenuous

  I thought toasting was wrong because the noise from the glasses was believed to scare away demons?

  Really stupid demons...